Please go to the website
www.rockypointexposed.com for information regarding current real estate issues in Rocky Point. After visiting the site, feel free to post comments on this blog. Just click on the
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I am one of the early investors in the North Beach properties. The lies I was told are unbelievable. It seems to me that it is no coincidence that shortly after I bought at Las Gardenias, a lawsuit came up, and more recently, right after lots of dollars were invested in Azul and Riviera Real, another lawsuit was started.
ReplyDeleteI am a victim of the Riviera Real project. It can happen to any US investor purchasing in Mexico. I encourage all future investors and visitors of Rocky Point to stay away. Until the Mexican government feels the pain in the pocketbook only then will they regulate the lawsuits and development fraud happening today. I may never see my life savings returned to me, but I will continue to encourage and educate those around me to stay away from Mexico. I do not want anyone else to experience the stress and pain my family has experienced through the process of purchasing Riviera Real. They will tell you it is safe, they will tell you they have "deep pockets", they will tell you "you are protected." The truth is you are not. They can do whatever they want once they have your money.
ReplyDeleteThe information on this website is refreshing and accurate.
ReplyDeleteI too was an early investor in NorthBeach. I have asked for the help of Puerto Penasco realtors and agencies in both the US and Mexican Governments to help resolve title (no title) issues.
Now Rocky Point can pay the price for the realtors and governments ignoring pleas. You can bet this website will have a major impact for Puerto Penasco!
I would also like to caution people about "Bank Trusts" Bank Trust fees are anywhere from $5,000.00USD +on most properties. They need to be renewed every year after the 2nd year. Bank Trusts are controlled by Mexican banks that are controlled by a corrupt Mexican government.....Need I say more?
We invested in NorthBeach in 2000. We were prmised a beautiful development as stated in the web site and as you can see we have nothing.
ReplyDeleteIf you invest in Mexico, don't plan on any help from the US or Mexican governments if you have problems.
The Mexican department of tourism promotes Mexico and the US government should offer protection under the NAFTA trade agreement when the property is in the "free zone" (which includes Rocky Point) Your elected and appointed officials will put out no effort to resolve the issues.
NorthBeach principal land owners are greedy people that are involved in orgainzed fraud.
The the Mexican government wants to see Puerto Penasco develop to its potential, they need to take these thieves to court and lock them up so they won't be stealing from anyone else.
Ripped off in Rocky Point
I enjoyed your information about real estate in Rocky Point.
ReplyDeleteOne area that could have been addressed is the problem that tourists and potential real estate investors encounter when they read local newspapers and/or sales brochures providing information about Rocky Point.
Much of the information is absolutely stretched truth or down right lies. Many papers live off advertising dollars that businesses and developers pay and could care less what information they print as long as it is positive, positive, positive.
A recent article in the Rocky Point Times written by Kent White painted a pretty picture about real estate investing in Mexico and the problems encountered at NorthBeach. While some of the article is informative, he expressed opinions about NorthBeach without having a clue what has taken place & the continuing saga. Of course, the Rocky Point Times printed the article without investigating the facts.
As recent as the January 2008 issue of the Rocky Point Times, an article (Facts about NorthBeach) was written by attorney Raul OFarrill and again printed without investigation. It contained blatent lies about NorthBeach in an effort to cover up very serious real estate problems. The article was left unsigned which gives the paper little credibility and the article no foundation.
The real estate community in Rocky Point, the local newspaper and advertising agencies have swept problems under the rug for years and still are doing so in order to make a buck. There are too many unfortunate investors making waves to clean up the mess that these people have created. It is time for the Rocky Point to change and begin operating honestly.
I applaud you for putting a web site together that is informative as well as addressing fraud at North Beach.
ReplyDeleteI made vast amounts of money in the US by investing in real esate over a period of 35 years and continue to make money on it today. I lost vast amounts of money ininvesting in Mexico real estate.
Un-licensed sales agents came to the US to put on sales seminars and pick up deposits for property in Mexico. These individuals, in most cases are required to contact the individual State Real Estate Commission to get permission to market in a particular state.
That didn't happen. Today there is a licensing requirement for realtors but no governing agency to control them. If you need help with your investment after the sale, who are you going to turn to? From my experience, there is no one!
You will be told that you can invest in a property and rent it to make the payment. Properties that are not directly on the beach will not rent until all beachfront property is rented. Beach front properties rent approx 30-40% of the time. Remember that you still have on going expenses such as association fees, management fees, insurance, taxes, bank trust fees, maintenance, utilities ect.
Areas like Sandy Beach are so over built that there were over 2000 re-sale properties at one time and are permanent billboards advertising re-sales. This has a major impact on property values. From my experiences, I would recommend the following:
1.Never do a 2nd mortgage on your primary residence to invest in Mexico. 2.Never pay money to developers offering special "pre-construction" pricing as there is no guarantee that the project will be completed.
3.Never listen to a sales agent who tells you the project is nearly sold out and you need to act quickly
4. Never buy until you see a completed unit and know there are no liens or title problems on the property
5. After you purchase, be willing to tolerate the problems encountered at the border crossing, corruption in the police department, lack of infrastucture to include but not limited to water and sewer.
6. BEST ADVICE: DON'T INVEST IN MEXICO. A BAD INVESTMENT IN THE US IS BETTER THAN A GOOD INVESTMENT IN MEXICO.
Keep paying your US taxes so you can help support all the illegals get across the border!
Sign me: Seeing the Light!
My family invested in NorthBeach in early 2000. Because some of the blogs have mentioned owners, I will give you some information to let you know how all of the corruption at NorthBeach occured.
ReplyDeleteThe Palacios and Grajalvas are Mexican nationals who teamed up with Juan Luis Martin Senior and Junior (from Spain). The Martins were supposedly individuals that had experience in marketing and developing land. The experiences they had were dealings in Cobo San Lucus where Juan Luis Martin Senior and family members were arrested and accused of land fraud in the mid 1990's. It is my understanding that they were not to re-enter Mexico after the conviction so they live and operate out of San Diego.but are known to move around to Florida and parts of Europe. From information that has been compiled, it appears that the Martins operate under phoney corporations and in some cases may have fictitous names on documents with forged signatures. The most recent law suit filed by the Grajalvas naming the Martins and Palacios and other investors as defendants, was filed because the Martins were not paying the Grajalvas their fair share for land sales at NorthBeach.
The NorthBeach problems were brought to the attention of the real estate community in Rocky Point and some of those same real estate agents have continued to market and sell NorthBeach property. Originally when it was brought to the real estate community's attention, there was about 2 and 1/2 million dollars invested. Today there are nearly 300 investors with up to 50 million invested. The most recent law suit has ceased all activities at NorthBeach. The suit has asked that all sales contracts become null and void,
A group of investors have contaced the real esate community in Rocky Point, all agencies of the Mexican and US governments with very little acion to remedy the NorthBeach fiasco. The media has now become involved to warn potential investors about the problems with investing and owning property in Mexico.
It is my intention to do whatever is necessary to alert the public about the extreme risk involved in investments in Mexico There is absolutely no secuity to protect your investment and your chances are extremely high that you will lose your money. There is no money to be made in Mexico.
North Beach Investor
My wife and I are residents of Playa Dorada,
ReplyDeletePlaya Dorada was the first attempt by the Grijalva's to develop their property dating back to 1991. Many Americans signed lease contracts with the Grijalvas' with the promise that the lease contracts would be converted to Bank Trusts.Their agents, Mr. Paco Meza or Omar Saenz contracted and built houses along the beachfront for the Americans. Things were beautiful until North Beach (Juan Luis Martin Reyes) arrived on the scene. To set some facts straight, the Grijalva's are the owners of the property. They entered into a contract with Juan Luis Martin to create the company Playa Norte. The Grijalvas used their property as their investment in the company and became the 51% major shareholders and the primary signers for the company, The property was placed in Trust with Bancrecer, with the Grijava's being the primary signers. Mr. Martin held 49% in the agreement and his obligations were clear. #1. Deposit several million dollars in the Trust account to be used for installation of infrastructure.( The money has never been put into the account. There is no record of any deposit.) # 2. His obligation was for construction of the streets, installation of water, sewer and electricity (utilities), which do not exist. #3. It was also his obligation to acquire all the necessary licenses and permits from the State of Sonora and the City of Puerto Penasco for the Development. Needless to say there are no approved subdivision plans or permits in the North Beach Development with the exception of Las Gardinas. North Beach never had a license to sell property, only to develop. This can be verified by logging on to the website of Increson or the public registry in the State of Sonora. There is a list of developments and it shows the licenses and permits that were granted by the state. For all the people who have been the victims of fraud at North Beach, understand that the Grijalva's have been the victims of fraud as well, by the same person or people as you. They had no choice but to file litigation against their partner to protect their property and their investment. Their mistake was that they gave Juan Luis a power of attorney and dominion over the property and made him the CEO of Playa Norte. The rest is history as you know it. This is a very complicated situation because these people are sophisticated criminals who use the law to protect themselves while conducting illegal activities. As you know, this includes American developers and attorneys as well, who continue to try and convince unsuspecting American investor's that all is well, when we all know that it is not.
Bill Blakemore said,
ReplyDeleteon February 1st, 2008 at 3:30 am
I bought a “pre-construction” unit in a project that to date has still not yet started, although I am a bit concearned, and anxious, I think the best and only realistic thing to do is be open minded, and aware of all the issues involved.
I know things are done so different there in Mexico then they are here in the States, and the “first appearance'’ is often not what it seems.
I would like to think that there are only one or two projects that have problems, but as I search and watch, I find out that every single project in Rocky Point has gone through and many are still going through things that seem to be impossible, or insurrmountable.
I have many friends who have bought, and are still buying real estate in Rocky Point. They have at times hit a “lull” in the market, or had delays on the site, but everything has always worked itself out and been fine.
I read some of the other comments on this site, and I get the idea that many really think that in Mexico the “Political Powers” are in control of everything, and that the “Judicial System” is controled by them. This is so INCORRECT. It may be a little “old fasioned” then what we used to here, but they are two seperate powers that can only do that which they are empowered to do.
There have been many millions of dollars made in Rocky Point in real estate, and there will be no end to this, as in every desirable area.
In 2000 I invested in a Kasita at NorthBeach. I had been in the priesthood for 20+ years. I had saved a little over $4,000.00 which was enough to get a bank loan for approx $40,000.00 to pay for the Kasita. The Kasita program was to provide property management that paid the owner 1% per month which should have made the payment on my bank loan. The Kasitas were never built and I received only (1) penalty payment from NorthBeach (approx $400.00)
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say, I could not make the bank payment and in order to protect my credibility, I left the priest hood in order to generate enough income to pay the bank. The bank was very generous in giving me some extra time in which to repay the loan.
I have since completed college courses to become a registered nurse. It will take me many years to pay back my college loans and bank loan. I will continue to do missionary work as time permits as a service to the Lord.
I believe that everyone will have their judgement day and trust the Palacios and Martins will be prepared to justify their actions.
I was recently directed to your website.
ReplyDeleteI am heartsick about all of the losses incurred by people investing in NorthBeach and Mexico. My wife and I invested in NorthBeach in early 2000 and our dream of a retirement residence on the beach has vanished.
We knew of others who purchased not far down the beach who received Bank Trusts - maybe we could have done a better job of "due diligence"; however, after reading your web site, I don't know if it would have made a difference.
Shouldn't we be protected by the NAFTA Trade Agreement? If neither the US or Mexican Governments are willing to help with the problems, what is the purpose of the agreement?
In my opinion, the developer of NorthBeach took the money, did not put in the infrastructure but instead put the funds in foreign bank accounts. What good are American dollars invested in Mexico, if the money isn't there?
Your web site is doing a tremendous service to enlighten people to the dangers of investing in Mexico - I wish we would have had the opportunity to read something like this before we crossed the border!
Hey ...great comments! I almost missed the comment page!!!!
ReplyDeleteIf I was not looking to make a comment I would have missed the comments.
"I almost missed all these vital experiences and advice about the real estate deals in Mexico gone wrong! It would be a shame for anyone to "miss" these experiences.
Would you consider a specific link calling out "read comments"
I would want anyone to miss this part of your page, as I almost did.
These comments are a vital read for the 1000's of victims out there.
At the very least they can have peace that they were/are not alone.
Great Job!
for those of you wanting to invest in Sonora Mexico take a look at this:
ReplyDeletehttp://members.virtualtourist.com/m/b8c32/
before you invest! No amount of carefully planned and executed due dillegence on your part will give you the legal, ethical or moral protections in Mexcio that are afforded to you in America.
Our case is NOT one of title dispute, no land fraud just locals that want free beach land and those politicians that appease them for fear of a social movement against their political party.
moral of the story, don't invest in Mexico!!!!! uerto Peñasco is th every tip of the iceberg!
In the December issue of Rocky Point Times, an article appeared titled “Safe investments are abundant in Rocky Point” authored by Kent White. Mr. White is President of AMPI, an organization of real estate agent in Puerto Penasco. References were made regarding North Beach. His claim was that” investors are not losing their money; there are delays in getting title”. That statement was challenged in a letter to RPT indicating that since 1999, investors have not received refunds, title or trusts to purchased properties in North Beach. Clearly, that money is lost. Other claims in his article were addressed in the rebuttal letter which was never published in RPT.
ReplyDeleteIn the January issue of Rocky Point Times, an unsigned article appeared titled “Facts about North Beach”. The article referenced projects allegedly completed in North Beach that were lies. Specifically,
“Some readers may be aware that a golf course designed by Fazio was
built during this period as were streets, lagoons, a water desalinization
plant, and a water treatment plant. The full electrification of the property
was also accomplished during these difficult years.”
To date, there is no golf course; no streets, no lagoons, no power to partially constructed buildings and no street lights, and the desalinization and water treatment plant have ever been completed.
A call was made to Rocky Point Times to determine who authored the article and they refused to disclose that information. It was later determined that the article was written by Mr. Raul O’Farrill, a Mexican attorney and advertiser in RPT. A rebuttal article was submitted it to RPT to set the record straight. Additionally, several North Beach investors wrote letters to the editor as well. Receipt of the letters was acknowledged by the editor but never published.
On January 25, a meeting was held with Sandy O’Hare regarding the rebuttal for the article “Facts about North Beach”. It was indicated that the response would not be printed as provided, but in a “revised” form. It is clear Rocky Point Times will not report factual or accurate information about real estate issues in Rocky Point.
Administrator
I'm really sorry to hear about all the bad luck for some investors in Mexico, but upon reading many of the comments, I have to respond that many comments are inaccurate and or incorrect. I had the fortune or misfortune of inheriting a beach house on the strip of sand next to Manny's Beach Club. These are single family homes which were built 10 to 25 years ago
ReplyDeletedepending on which section you are in. This area is also the most prime beachfront property in Rocky Point.
My father had purchased the property in 2001 and of course when I took over the house I had quite an experience going through the bank trust process. My trust was done with a cost of 5k US dollars. But people! people! people!, the one skill I learned in College that still serves it's purpose today and that is RESEARCH! I had no clue what a Fideicomiso was.The first thing I did was to get on the internet and READ. After educating myself I felt comfortable hiring a US attorney and discussing the situation. It took a year to complete due to a breakdown
in communication between the bank and the notario, but I did get it done.
Also, the bank trust is good for 50 years and does not need to be renewed
every 2 years as mentioned above. I have no clue what that person is talking about, having to renew every 2 years.
Was my situation flawless, definitely not. I had to fight the mexican house keeper for a year to get her out of the house, as she thought she could claim she was married to my father. Of course she had no proof, and the Bank Trust was my saving grace. I learned how the Mexican system worked first hand and I have a nice house to visit when I want with no mortgage to worry about. IS the system there flawed, yes it is, but no more than many other places I have lived in the US and abroad. The bottom line here is that the USA is the greatest country on the planet and gives the most freedoms and basic rights to it's citizens bar none! But dishonesty is not isolated to Rocky Point, Mexico.
The bottom line is that you people couldn't see the forest through the trees.
You saw the colorrful brochures and paid out all that money. Mexico isn't the USA, the laws are very different and no one seems to be held acountable for the crimes, but don;t think for a minute this doesn't happen in the US as well. Remember Charles Keating anyone????? How many hundreds of millions were people bilked out of? It's a gamble sometimes, but for heavens sake DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!! wherever you invest your money.
Those are very unfortunate circumstances, but your situations alone do not make the rest of Rocky Point a bad place, nor a poor investment.
I wonder if i could get your email address. My father passed away also and left property also on strip by mannys and on top of hill above mannys. Trying to transfer from fathers name to my sister and mine. Need advice please. rbranham455@gmail.com
DeleteI wonder if i could get your email address. My father passed away also and left property also on strip by mannys and on top of hill above mannys. Trying to transfer from fathers name to my sister and mine. Need advice please. rbranham455@gmail.com
DeleteI mis-quoted when I talked about the Bank Trust having an annual renewal fee. The Bank Trust in fact, has a annual "maintenance" fee that has to be paid after the first 2 years. If you are not paying your annual maintenance fee, you will be required to pay the fee + penalty. Everybody that abides by the Mexican laws pays annual Bank Trust maintenance fees.
ReplyDeleteshaon smith said,
ReplyDeleteON FEBRUARY 13, 2008 AT:02:38 AM
We have been travelling to Rocky Point for about 25 years and just finished construction on our second home. You are doing a grave injustice to the homeowners who have purchased, want to purchae or are trying to sell their real estate because of a few deals gone awry. I can name at least twenty developments in Arizona where American developers took money for real estate deals and left people holding the bag so to speak. It doesn’t matter what country you’re in, everyone needs to do their homework. Rocky Point is a wonderful place to live and vacation. Try to buy something near the ocean in the US at these prices. It sounds like this website was started by a disgruntled investor.
In response to Shaon Smiths’ comments: We, as well have been traveling to Rocky Point for about 15 years. For the past seven years we and many other investors have been trying to acquire real estate in the area. Unfortunately, these investors have been taken in by sleazy land owners and developers leaving investors “holding the bag” to the tune of over $50 million dollars. And these developers continue to lie and defraud potential investors in the area. So, according to the writers logic, real estate fraud in the US and real estate fraud in Rocky Point implies that two wrongs make it right?
ReplyDeleteWe could not agree more with the writer’s observation; Rocky Point is a wonderful place to live and vacation. It would be orders of magnitude better if the fraud and lies would stop, $50 million dollars were refunded to hundreds of investors and all could enjoy this beautiful place.
To those who feel a grave injustice is being done by this website, we suggest they complain to the real estate community, the shady developers, and authorities who continue to allow the fraud. It is not the purpose of this website to discourage others from investing but rather to educate and alert them to potential pitfalls in investing in Rocky Point.
Oh, by the way, the website is supported by not one disgruntled investor but by hundreds of investors.
No one is disagreeing with the magnitude of the situation in Rocky Point, but the fact remains the same no matter how it is sliced and the fact that it was in Mexico ( a foreign country) should have made the point of doing more research all the more valid. I could not begin to imagine losing the kind of money other people have and yes, we sympathize very much so.
ReplyDeleteI have not told my complete story of my adventures in Mexico and do not plan to for awhile anyway, but it was not all cherry pie dealing with the Mexican house keeper and I also spent time in the jail in Rocky Point
for absolutely not breaking any laws at all, am I pissed as hell??? You better believe it, I do know something about Mexcian justice and it isn't pretty. What is amazing is the fact that I met some of the nicest people
(my current neighbors) who stayed and helped me fight it out there. The majority of my neighbors have had property investments in Rocky Point for over 25 years without a single hitch. Of course these are single family homes and not the large community type projects which are fairly new in comparison.
I am all for spreading the truth, but truth be known (FAIRLY) there are many investment opportunities there and you cannot be judge and jury for the rest of the people who have had good luck and done the research.
I learned about the Mexican system the hard way, but I can tell you I would most certainly take the jail time over losing that much money.
We will see if the investigative reporter on the show tonight has done his homework, or just created a lopsided judgmental mess. Remember, there are always two sides to every story.
A BIG thank-you to the administrators of this website for providing valuable information about various developments in Puerto Penasco to those considering investing in the area. I wish this information had been available to my family nine years ago when we purchased our piece of "paradise" at North Beach. Many bloggers mention "doing the research" prior to investing in Mexico. Let me assure you that no amount of research could have predicted (or prevented) what we walked into at that time. After reading the comments posted on this website, it is evident that hundreds of investors have fallen victim to organized fraud that still exists in Puerto Penasco today. I'm sure that these investors did not take 2nd mortgages on their homes and invest their savings ($50 million dollars) without "doing the research." It is apparent that fraud will continue until the US and Mexico governments step in and take action. How long will that take??
ReplyDeleteUpdate: El Golfo Sonora.
ReplyDeleteOn Feb 6, 2008 a criminal complaint was filed against some squaters. On Tuesday Feb 12, 2008 60 state judicial police and scores of local municipal police descended upon the squatters occupying Lot 2 & 3 in El Golfo Colonia Melchor Ocampo and evicted them. 6 days in order to get the political machine in order to take care of business for the fellow politician whose land was invaded. No mention in the paper of the real owners in the newspapers but all editorials hinted at this situation.
When the authorities were asked why the same law does NOT apply to our situation (that have been fighting for almost three years to get our land back) we were told the Governor was upset that they squatted on these peoples land and they needed to leave so HE ordered the eviction. SIx days and that was because it took them 4 days to get to El Golfo or they would have been there sooner.
Tell me Mexican law protects American Investors!!! Our title is just as good as the people on Lot 2 & 3. The first State District Attorney that actually helped me WITHOUT asking for a dime gets "transfered" the week before he was to file for indictments against the 2 squatters on our land???!! How can that be explained? And it gets better! This morning the new investigator berates me because I basically allowed the terrorists to knock my block wall down. Go figure, you play by the legal rules and you loose. The state of Sonora still refuses to execute our arrest warrants because again, throwing Americans off their legally acquired and titled land is a social problem and not a legal one!
the saga continues!
Pedro
In response to the quote above "I’m sure that these investors did not take 2nd mortgages on their homes and invest their savings ($50 million dollars) without “doing the research.” It is apparent that fraud will continue until the US and Mexico governments step in and take action. How long will that take?? "
ReplyDeleteYou can jusitfy or not all you want about what you paid for and what you got, slice it dice it, julienne it, the fact remains the same, unless you received a Fideicomiso in your name properly endorsed by the local notario etc. you had, yes "had" no chance of receiving anything, I don't know if any of you people who lost all your money were aware of this
or not before you handed over tthe money. My house was inherited
and I had to jump through incredible amounts of legal hoops to get it changed to my name, and I had no clue either what I was in for, but I can tell you flat out with 100% confidence that without the Fideicomiso we had, I would have lost the house to the Mexican housekeeper. So yes I do know what I am talking about when it comes to owning property in Mexico.
No Fideicomiso, no NADA!
So I see a billboard of Villa Cortez on this site, does this mean that this is yet another one of the properties in Mexico that will never be built? It was supposed to be built by Oct of 2007 and now they are stating 2009.
ReplyDeleteDebbie Says:
ReplyDeleteFebruary 28th, 2008 at 8:35 pm e
I can tell you that I am an investor in Villa Cortez and the initial schedule was that the development would be complete in October of 2007. It has not even begun ,and the partner is saying now sometime in 2009.
Debbie,
ReplyDeleteYour concerns about your investment in Villa Cortez are valid. It is another one of several developments in Rocky Point that appears to be in financial difficulty.
Word is out that the developer has lost the infrastructure financing and as recently as yesterday I heard that Villa Cortez will never happen.
This is the second attempt by this individual to develop this project. The first time it was called “Village II Project” and many investors put money in that project in 2000 and 2001 and obviously it never happened. This is another example of a developer collecting “pre construction” money which is common practice in Rocky Point. If the developer does not build, he has millions of dollars in his pocket and the investors are the only ones that lose. The Rocky Point Times will print anything without investigating the “facts” so the public will not be aware of the status of these projects.
If you are concerned about your investment or know of others in the same position, I have heard about a meeting on March 5th in Phoenix with Arizona Department of Real Estate and Sonoran officials. The contact information that was printed in the Arizona Star can be found at this website. http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/227271.php
Extensive research was done ( and there was plenty, including Fidocomiso's)FRANKLY IT IS OFFENSIVE TO HAVE PEOPLE SUGGEST THAT RESEARCH WASN'T DONE... DUH...MY BANK ACCOUNT HAS $1,000S GONE FOR LAWYERS AND RESEARCH! Let's not even start on the PHYSICAL cost in years off my life due to the stress of trying to do the research right!
ReplyDeleteFact: There is no RIGHT! There is one disappointment after another. The attitude of most Mexican lawyers "it is layers of corruption that will NEVER be cleared up." Taken from Arizona Republic article, 4th quarter 2007.
THE FACTS REMAIN;100's of people are affected by MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOST to developers who are STILL SELLING PROPERTIES 2/29/2008 TODAY!!!!!(complete with golf courses and lagoons..) But it was published in an article in The Rocky Point Times as FACT! Golf courses???? Lagoons?
These developers are still TAKING PEOPLEs MONEY and the authorities both MEXICAN and US have been operating with BLIND EYES even though 100s of victims have been asking the US and the Mexican authorities to intervine.
In order to develop you have to have a permit and currently (today)permits on these properties in question are in litigation and are supposed to be withdrawn/work halted! Yet (due to payoffs and corruption and government officials owning in the development)the selling and advertising and victimizing goes on! EVERY DAY! TICK...TICK...TICK
There is a question that these permits have not even EVER been issued!
There is supposed to be NO WORK until there is a PERMIT. No MONIES COLLECTED>>>NADA! Yet the salespeople are and have been selling ...the billboards are still up and keep going up after each wind storm and The Rocky Point Times prints articles that it knows for fact to be untrue!?!? Golf Courses? Lagoons?
I commend this blog... IT IS INCREDULUS what these developers and government and city officials are getting away with!
AND I AM TALKING U.S. AND MEXICAN...
Heck one Mexican attorney involved in several of these developments gone bad is the first NAFTA Appointee Mexican attorney and among many liberties afforded to this Mexican he is allowed to teach an Ethics Class in Real Estate in the State of Arizona!
You have to HIT THE OFFENDERS IN THE POCKET BOOK!
Boycott Rocky Point AND SAY WHY!!!!!!!!!
Lack of money....TALKS!
Stop buying from advertisiers in The Rocky Point Times. Tell the merchants who distribute it the lies it prints...Golf Courses?! Lagoons?! Locals merchants know there is no golf course or lagoon.
Ask about the US/Arizona State groups encouraging relations and work exchange programs with the Arizona Department of Real Estate and tourism...why spend advertising monies on lies???? Is that tax payer monies????There are no golf courses or lagoons at these places! Desalanization plant...it's all desert! NADA but SAND! why promote it? (unless you have something to gain??)
Kudoo's to all that BLOG here with your experiences...even the people who have been blessed with success...it's nice to know success is an experience for some...for me it's something I must still aspire to!
Keep the experiences coming...United we stand...Strength in numbers!
We will PREVAIL!
Tell everyone you know about this site!
Thank you for this site!
Elizabeth - your blog is WONDERFUL! It is totally accurate with facts!
ReplyDeleteYou too, have noticed the continued lies that are printed in the Rocky Point Times - I would recommend that anyone with a subscription cancel it.
Let's see how many advertisers are interested advertising in a paper that no one reads!
Lets work together to get the unethical"first NAFTA appointed Mexican attorney" stripped of the title he didn't deserve in the first place!---- And he is giving classes on "ethics"? ----What is ethical about terroistic acts on homeowners? Is this Osama bin Laden's brother or worse?
Elizabeth, you are exactly right. Your statements are accurate and correct. You say the NAFTA appointed Mexican attorney teaches ethics? Several individuals have filed complaints with the Arizona State Bar - the complaints were dismissed because of lack of evidence when in fact the Arizona State Surpreme Court (who appointed him) did not want "egg on their face".
ReplyDeleteI recommend everyone that has had affiliation with him and knowing that he practices unethically, file a complaint with the Arizona Attorney General's office. People may or may not be aware this same person uses terroristic methods to harrass homeowners in the Rocky Point area and the local authorities do absolutely nothing about it. If the Arizona Attorney General ignores the legitimate complaints, it will be necessary to get national media involved to make the general public aware.
Furthermore, I feel no pity for the people in Rocky Point for "lack of business" That includes not only development sales offices but also local merchants. Realtors in Puerto Penasco were aware of the fraud at NorthBeach 7 years ago!! Yes, 7 years ago. They refused to do anything about it because sales were skyrocketing and they were "lining their pockets". You must understand I use the term "realtor" reluctantly because there is no governing agency to regulate them. The most they can offer is to tell one that your purchase is a "no brainer" you "must buy now" to get the best price.
I avoid the town as much as possible because I have experienced the majority of the merchants ignore my presence at restaurants (if there are "locals" available to wait on). I refuse to buy at the "shrimp market on the malacon" that openly admits they have (2) scales to weigh the shrimp - one of which will give you about 3# for a 5# price. You would think after several years that a "repeat" customer would be more valuable than a "one time" customer that they ripped off.
It is hard to get anyone's support when Rocky Point is full of unethical merchants, realtors, attorneys and city officials that cannot operate without payoffs, especially when all of these practices are backed by the Rocky Point Times. Believe me - this is NOT MARGARITA VILLE!
I have worked in Penasco for 20 years. First selling lumber to the lumberyards and then selling my wife Fabiola's land in Puerto Penasco. I know all about the corruption in Mexico (sometimes its a great thing) and I agree with most comments in this blog. But I would bet money that most of these buyers did not get the opinions of any notaries in Puerto Penasco before forking over there money to these crooks. We have sold lots of houses and land in Puerto Penasco without any problems. From what I have seen and had to deal with from Americans in Puerto Penasco most of them deserve what they get. I said most- I have also met some very nice and important people. We still have land for sale but with the US economy the way it is we are selling to Mx. nationals.
ReplyDeleteMy comment "most of them deserve what they get" relates to american buyers not following proper procedures when buying property anywhere.P.S. I went to high school with one of Ned Warrens kids.((Arcadia).I also live in Maricopa Az. where a builder skated with a bunch of deposits not to long ago. This kind of stuff happens everywhere. In Puerto Penasco Im sure it was Americans that taught the Mexicans how to do it.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I wouldn't purchase property in Mexico unless I intended to live there. Real estate historically has been an awful investment, returning about 1% a year after adjusting for inflation and maintenance costs. The increases in real estate prices over the last decade has been fueled by speculation and fraud, and now it's collapsing in the U.S., Europe, Australia, and in the Mexican resorts that have overbuilt, like Rocky Point. If people just purchased homes that they can afford to live in, rather than as "investments," we wouldn't have this problem. (My blog shows the Maricopa County preforeclosure rates skyrocketing.)
ReplyDeleteI love to visit Rocky Point about once every other year, but I'm quite happy renting other people's condos when I do so.
It's interesting that the RockyPointExposed.com site shows the same names again and again in these failed developments--the Martins, the Grijalvas, Morrill.
Gia Heller says:
ReplyDeleteMarch 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Hello,
I applaud your website for allowing people to see what are and what are not viable projects in Rocky Point, Mexico. I just wanted to drop a note, that the SONORAN RESORTS at Sandy Beach (Sonoran Spa, Sonoran Sea, Sonoran Sun & Sonoran Sky) were all delivered ON TIME or EARLY by the developer. Everyone that bought at these projects received a clear and free bank trust deed to the property. When we sell, we make sure there are no leins, all taxes are paid and that in general, the buyer is protected.
I just wanted to put it out there, that there are safe projects where you can purchase and you have licensed MEXICAN real estate agents whom have gone through over 100 hours of Mexican real estate law classes to ensure that we can protect the buyer. Your site makes claim that you should always do business with a licensed AZ Real Estate agent. The truth is, that is fine as a credential, but without the Mexican real estate degree to back it up, and the knowledge of the local laws, a straight up AZ Agent could not handle protecting a buyer. Also, there are many realtors in town like myself that advised our clients strongly against the North Beach area in general, and certain projects in that area. Many people bought AGAINST the advice of said real estate professionals.
I am reachable for questions about purchasing legally and correctly in Rocky Point Arizona as well as property consultations.
Gia Heller
Real Estate Investment Specialist
Top Producer 2007
Sonoran Spa, Sea, Sun & Soon to be Sky Resales
SONORAN SEA OFFICE: 602.476.7511
RESIDENCE/VOICEMAIL: 480.626.4698
USA FAX: 602.476.1633
MEX FAX: 011.52.638.382.8547
MEX HOME PHONE: 011.52.638.382.8415
MEX CELL PHONE: 011.52.1.638.107.6235
When I read these comments I am appalled but not surprised. Back in 1998 I helped a local concert promoter with a big Labor Day weekend party. I was working at a Phoenix radio station. My promoter client arranged contractually with a Rocky Point club owner to partner with him and split all the profits. My radio station brought in the national entertainment. After all the contracts were agreed upon and signed by all parties, the lengthy planning started. When my wife and I arrived for the weekend my promoter was hanging his head as the Presidente' of Rocky Point had charged him a $25,000 fee, cash I might add. To make matters worse, the club owner he had partnered with decided at the last minute to "pull out" and it was too late to cancel the entertainment. There was no recourse, and my promoter walked away with his tail between his legs and about $100 grand less in his wallet. No protection. When dealing with Mexico, you are dealing with a third world country and your rights are a joke!
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I paid cash for a lot in North Beach, I 've tried repeatedly to get answers. We bought to have a place on the beach for our retirement, and to have our kids and grandkids have a place to come and vacation with us. My husband recently died and of course never got to enjoy "our beach property", we were ripped off!!! I brought this to the attention of Stewart Title years ago and was treated rudely by them. I believe something strange is going on with the international dept. of Stewart Title. Also, I tried to bring this to the attention of channel 12 news to warn other people, but they too wouldn't expose these people. Stewart title continues to endorse properties which are questionable in Mexico I was told the title insurance was worthless but yet I still see many properties which claim your investment is safe because you have title Ins. with an American title company namely Stewart Title. If anyone has any info they can offer regarding receiving any justice about this Please let me know.
ReplyDeleteI would like to make everyone aware that if you are purchasing beach front property you will need a 'CONCESSION'.
ReplyDeleteYou should not pay any federal zone taxes before getting your concession.
Nobody told us about this when we bought our beach front condo in Las Conchas. We are still waiting for our trust to be completed (which is taking FOREVER with banamex), so we cannot even apply for a concession yet. We keep getting fines for not having the concession, but we hired an attorney to put a hold/stop on our case for now. She has helped several of the beach front home owners in Las Conchas fight the penalties that SEMARNAT keeps imposing for not having the concession (A concession takes as long as a trust to get. Even if you pay the fines, they just keep sending you more until you get the concession).
The funny thing is - our condo is over 30 years old - and it has never had a concession, which is federal law in Mexico. The government has just now decided to start enforcing this law. So heads up!
Can any one give me some kind of advise on buying 1/8 share from an LLC on Sandy Beach. Thank you Sal
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard what is the "latest & greatest" with Playa San Jorge??
ReplyDeleteSal;
ReplyDeleteUnless the other 7/8th of the LLC is owned by your wife, run like the wind!
I have personal experience with real estate investments in Rocky Point. That said I do most of my real estate sales in Northern Baja where we have many of the same issues with developments built off buyer deposits.
ReplyDeleteAmericans forget caveat emptor (buyer beware) when they go to a different country and start hearing unfamiliar terms. Plus they get hynotized by familiar franchise logos and friendly looking faces that speak English. The fact is that you are only as secure as the disclosure of your agent and your own investment intelligence. And *standardized* disclosure is not a legal requirement in any state of Mexico yet including Sonora that has "liicensing."
We founded the Baja Fair Trade disclosure standards which prevent the scenarios talked about in these stories. The standards are at the following link:
http://www.bajafairtrade.info/Our_Disclosure_Rules/page_1930560.html
These disclosures apply to a purchase anywhere in Mexico, not just Baja.
Now that said, I have witnessed that no matter how much you educate (and even WARN) buyers there are some that will pick the risky deal because it just seems soooo enticing, easier, cheaper, or whatever.
My sincere best wishes to those going through these problems. And my advice to all others to learn and not take the same risks without having eyes wide open.
What a terrible tragedy all this is and kudos to you all for doing what you can to expose the fraud and apparent indifference (at best) or collusion of the Mexican AND U.S. authorities.
ReplyDeleteI certainly can't fault anyone for not doing their homework. It sounds as if many of you tried (although it's tough to do homework on something that is completely foreign and in another language). At some point most of us have to rely on attornies, real estate agents and title officers to some degree, even here in the U.S. That's what we hire these people for.
We purchased a condo/townhome in the Mirador area last May ('07) and have been enjoying Rocky Point and our 2nd home immensely since that time. No REAL problems so far-only minor inconveniences with the way things are done in Mexico. I did quite a bit of research myself, but again at some point had to rely on professionals who I could only hope had my best interest at heart. I used real estate agents with Coldwell Banker and we used OTP (with the 4-leaf clover) for the trust documents. I felt further encouraged that several real estate agents from Coldwell Banker actually live full-time in the development.
I looked at Coldwell Banker's website and it doesn't appear that they endorse any of the "problem" properties, although I have no way of knowing if they did at some point in the past.
While clearly there are risks with buying property in Mexico, for every person that's had a problem I would guess there are hundreds who have had no problem. Maybe those people are just lucky. I would prefer to think that the buyers of the North Beach properties are just unlucky or unfortunate.
As a few others have commented, this is not a problem that is isolated to Mexico. With the real estate slowdown hundreds (maybe thousands) of buyers have lost money in Arizona as well when developers go under. I think the biggest difference is that these developers have continued to dupe buyers over and over without recourse. I think eventually you would end up in prison if you tried that here.
I enjoy Rocky Point and obviously would encourage anyone thinking of buying property there to proceed deliberately and cautiously. But the fact remains that it is the closest beach to most of Arizona and still a dream location for a 2nd home for many Americans.
These issues, though gravely serious, appear to be the exception rather than the rule.
Sal, Ben Baker gave you some good advice but if you want or need more info talk to Rocky Point Fractionals. They can tell you all about them. I am not affiliated with rp fractionals.----------I have lived and worked in Puerto Penasco for a long time. I understand completely what Richard says about the housekeeper almost getting his house. I know about the fixed scales at the fish market W. D. talks about and I completly understand what Gia is talking about. Most americans that buy here are completly out of there element and should seek the advice of either a good attorney or notary here in Penasco. The notaries here are good at what they do and will not let a crook take your money. I think most people blogging here have given money directly to the developers. These projects may not have started as frauds they simply failed. I dont know anybody involved on either side. In the states when a developer takes money and fails its called " they went broke or bankrupt" here its called fraud and the whole town pays for it. P.S. as was written by somebody blogging here there are two sides to every story.
ReplyDeleteDan C., I beleive the OPT you refer to is owned by the attorney representing these North Beach Developers. Mucho cuidado
ReplyDeleteReply to Bill Cox. I was researching land scams in Rocky Point and came across thsi website, I saw your comments and felt compelled to respond. Bill, you may or may not remember me, but my wife and I attempted to purchase property in Rocky Point from you and your wife, Fabiola. On August 6, 2005 (21/2 years ago), my wife and I signed an Offer and Intent to Purchase Real Estate and tendered a check for $15,000.00 as a deposit on a lot in the Ejido Lopez Black Mountain area. At that time, there was no paved road to the property and business was slow. The highway had not been constructed. We did this through your real estate agent Dee of Blue Dolphins Real Estate. I also brought to other investors who also signed an agreement and tendered deposits. We met with you personally a few times and you assured me and my friends that as soon as you received the title to the properties, we would be able to complete the transaction and eventually become owners of the lots that we agreed to purchase. You even shook my hand and gave me your word that the titles to the lots were forthcoming. To your credit, our deposit checks were not negotiated; however, we did spend a great deal of time going several times to the property and to the real estate office to inquire about the status of the titles. Time after time, we were told that the titles would arrive soon. To this day, I have not heard from you or your real estate agent about title to the property. In your comment above, you state that you have had to sell the property to Mexican Nationals. Why would you have to do that when you have at least three buyers who have signed an Intent to Purchase and given your real estate agent deposit checks to purchase property? Is it because after the highway was built, the value of the propery increased and you chose to ignore those of us who were there when there was little interest in the properties? Altough we have no contractual right to purchase the property because you did not negotiate the deposit checks, I believe it was not ethical of you to falsely lead me and my friends into thinking that as long as we waited for awhile we would become owners of the lots that we placed deposits on. So, tell me what happened to the three lots that my friends and I were interested in purchasing?
ReplyDeleteI am so tired of hearing these horror stories from so may people who have invested in Mexican real estate. When are people going to finally realize that Mexican property is still an extremely risky investment? There are so many ways one can get scammed and ripped off, not just in Rocky Point, but just about anywhere in Mexico. My advice is to get out now if you still can before you totally lose your shirts. If you really want to live in Mexico, then just rent and save yourself the grief and stress of putting a great deal of your hard earned money at risk. This situation would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
ReplyDeleteBe careful who you use to represent you in your purchase in Rocky Point.
ReplyDeleteWhether it be an attorney ( some are involved in the in law suits for
fraud ) a realtor ( some are so hungry that they continue to list and sell
properties that are under litigation or have no permites to sell ) title
companies (choose one who's officers are not being sued for fraud )
The word is out about these individuals and properties but not to the extent that there will be no more victims.Check this web site often for updates.
Don't be fooled. They are still trying to sell in these areas.
Don't be the next victim of fraud. Fraud is fraud whether in Mexico or the USA!
I am a resident of Hermosillo, Sonora, and this frauds have never appeared on local media. You should contact sonoran newspapers like El Imparcial and Expreso, so everybody get informed about those dirty bussines happening in Puerto Peñasco.
ReplyDeleteIs well known here en Sonora, that all major investors in Rocky Point are close friends of state governor Bours.
Keep fighting for your money.
Dear Friends
ReplyDeleteEven though this note is not about real state I’m really concern about everything that is happening in Mexico not only in Sonora. I represent ANA Seguros, a Mexican Automobile Insurance Company and we have always tried to take good care of our customers when they unfortunately have an accident.
We understand very well how important it is to act fast and honestly, especially because I have very good friends in The United States and because if that ever happened to me in another Country I would like to be treated like that.
There is still very honest people in Mexico, feel free to contact me, good luck with the real state problem.
Receive my best personal regards.
Victor Urbieta
Tourist Automobile Sub. Director
victorug@anaseguros.com.mx
Checkout Boycott Baja......you are not alone. We just found out that we think Trump is involved. Wish I could email you the letter from his employee Luia Siguer. He called us loosers (his spelling), mindless stupid griingos and we should get the f&*^ out of Mexico and go back to our ghettos in the US.
ReplyDeleteWe have a meeting with the Comptroller of Finance iin Mexico (who could that be) on Thurs. Win or lose, forget Mexico. We have had no help from the US. Better to be an illegal in US than an American in Mexico. Take your losses off on your income tax and check with your insurance co.
Can anyone tell me about Tri-Core Mexico Land Development LLC. They are really pushing several projects off of the Sonora Coast of Mexico. They have thrown out things like "Regulation D" and how the highway (which isn't built yet) will change everything. Lot 47 and Lot 5 are what they are pushing and nothing is even up yet, which they have stated. The also have said that there are other communities around that have sold out. I personally will not be investing for several reasons 1) I don't have the money and 2)It all sounds kind of shady to me. But a friend of mine is trying to get everyone he knows involved and I can't help but think that he might get "scammed" himself.
ReplyDeleteI would love to hear some feed back and thank you for this sight.
"Checkout Boycott Baja"? Val, where can I found out more info on this topic? I am very interested!!
ReplyDeleteI did not invest in Rocky Point but in a place south of Cancun called Playa del Carmen. It has been a living nightmare. We bought in 2003. After it was completed in Sept of 2004 there was a gas explosion and a worker was killed. The complex took 6 months to repair. Shortly after that the foundation collasped in July of 2005. We have been in a law suit for over 2 1/2 years with no end in sight. We thought we were buying a piece of paradise and we truly love Mexico and the Mexican people but the investors/builders are a very wealthy and powerful family in Monterry Mx and have their hands in the pockets of all govt officials.
ReplyDeleteI am looking for imput on an American Attorney that we could hire that could speed up the process. It has been 4 1/2 years since we bought our condo and we used it 3 times. I would just like to get my money back even though the value has tripled since we bought. Like many of the comments I've read, this was my life savings and would advise anyone planning to buy in Mexico--DON'T.
Looking for help and advise.
Thanks. Jamie from Tucson
To Val and Pedro:Check out this link:
ReplyDeletehttp://boycottbaja.org/media/ROSARITO%20HOMES%20%20KNSD%20TV.wmv
More information to follow.
Hi Ed. We have not heard from you in a long time so I was very surprised to find that you were posting here indicating you had problems with Twin (not Blue) Dolphins Real Estate and your offer on a lot at EJ Lopez near Black Mt. While memory is not always perfect here are the circumstances as we recall them:
ReplyDelete1. At the time you made the offer on that property you were clearly informed that the title was not yet available and that the timetable for delivery was indeterminate. This delay on issuing the title came about because the state of Sonora stopped issuing new titles at the Ejido after a zone change request on another part of the Ejido, not because there is a question of ownership. Why they do this I don’t know, but they do it. Many titles have been issued, many lots have been sold with and without bank trusts.
2. We advised you against proceeding with your offer due to the fact that the title was not available and that we could not tell you when it would be available. We suggested that you wait and we would advise you when the titles were issued for that part of the Ejido.
3. You insisted on making an offer and submitting a deposit check despite the fact that you were aware the titles were not yet available. At the time you indicated that you were more concerned about getting in early and locking down the price than having a title immediately. Since you are an attorney and I seem to recall, a Mexican citizen, we assumed you were completely aware of all of the issues with this offer and the way you wanted to proceed.
Yes it is true that the highway is now paved well past J Lopez but that fact has had no impact on the separate issue of titles. While titles on those particular lots have yet to be issued, this is not because there are questions or problems around ownership and ability to sell. There are no law suites or legal issues whatsoever and there never have been.
While you were and still are free to come to Penasco and EJ Lopez or us at the office whenever you wish, a simple, toll free call to our office would tell you the status of the title on the property. Your visits were not required so it’s difficult to understand how you describe this as a hardship.
Ed, no one likes this state of affairs but there is little we can do about it. If you have any questions we at Twin Dolphins can help with, please do not hesitate to let us know.
You can phone toll free at 602-324-7241 Monday Thru Sunday.
Dee Brooks,
Twin Dolphins Real Estate
Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico
Way to go Dee!
ReplyDeleteIf all real estate companies were as quick to respond to a problem rather than just put more ads in the Rockypoint Times for a problem property and ignore the underlying issues we would all be making more money in Mexico.
I seen one developer in RP that is building condo's and will not sell until they are almost or complete.
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear of the stories regarding the real estate scams. I highly recommend the Sonoran Properties. I bought my first condo in the Sonoran Sea and cleared over $50k (after capital gains) when I sold that property (1 Bedrom West building). I currently own a two bedroom, also in the Sea, which my family and friends enjoy very much.
ReplyDeleteHave faith, there are great people and great opportunities in Rocky Point.
ps - I am not a realtor, just someone who loves Rocky Point
Ross Donoghue
I´m a proudly Sonoran, Mexican Citizen, working during the last 22 years in the Real Estate Business in Hermosillo, Sonora.
ReplyDeleteSince August 2002, when it started, I belong to AMPI Hermosillo´s Chapter and have been working hardly with my companions, focused in improving our knowledge and skills to give a better attention to the public user of our services (foreigner and domestic).
I have read with attention and concern all your comments and complaints and I feel really bad, as our intention has always been helping our clients to accomplish their transactions in the best possible way.
In 2002, Law 150 which created the State of Sonora´s Real Estate Agent´s Register, was approved. I understand that both Governments (Arizona and Sonora) were concerned about several complaints regarding frauds perpetrated against American Citizens in the Rocky Point´s Area (specifically in a develop called Playa Norte), and worked together trying to find solutions within the Arizona-Sonora Commission scenery to avoid new illegal transactions.
In 2004, members of the AMPI Hermosillo´s Board of Directors, concerned for the future of our Industry, did work in the creation of the Diplomado in Real Estate Property. For this reason, we signed an agreement between Secretaria de Economia, Instituto Sonorense de Administracion Publica and AMPI Chapter Hermosillo.
Time has passed since that moment, and fortunately today we are proud to be the first State in Mexico where a Real Estate license has been approved, thanks to the combined efforts of both Governments and the input and interest of people dedicated to this industry, specially AMPI Sonora and AAR members. During the last 5 years we have been meeting in Cities of both States, discussing different topics to understand better our respective work and legal procedures. We also participate in the Arizona-Sonora Commission meetings where we have had the opportunity to talk with Government´s representants. One special topic is the Arizona Public Report, which is an indispensable requirement for those developers who wants to advertise their new developments in Arizona.
I apologize in the name of our people for mistakes and misunderstandings we have had in the past, and we strictly condemn bad will´s people of any country against those good citizens who puts it´s confidence on them for making their investments.
I also want to thank those American Citizens who did mention their good experiences on investing in our Country. As you may notice, the complaints always coincide in a same time and a same place: Playa Norte, before 2002. As I understand in my reading, everybody knows the name of the persons involved in this case.
I´m really sorry for all the people who has suffered this awful experience,
but I also want to ask you not to judge all our people in the same way, specially when we are doing our best efforts coordinated with the Government to professionalise our Sonoran and Mexican agents to give investors (foreign and domestic) the higher quality in our services.
Mexico is a wonderful country full of friendly and honest people. We don´t deserve such a terrible fame, due to the irresponsability of a few persons. We are trying to be better everyday. Unfortunately, here like in the rest of the world, we also have delinquents from here and from other countries, looking for people who ignores the right procedures to follow.
My advice is, before investing in a foreign Country, read, learn and look for the right people who will be able to guide you safely throughout your transaction.
Don´t quit investing in your closest and beautiful beach, "Rocky Point", or in any place of our wonderful country. Make your dreams come true. Just call an AMPI member. We are in all Mexico and also we are REALTOR members. TRUST US!!! We´ll be pleased to help you!!!
Norma Figueroa
Ms Figueroa,
ReplyDeleteI applaud your sense of patriotism, however, other investors in the State of Sonora have encountered serious problems. These "land issues" are not limited to Puerto Peñasco.
I have spent the past 32 months pleading, arguing, begging the executive branch and the judicial branches of the Sonoran Government at an extremely high financial, emotional and mental cost to myself and to my family fighting for an AUTHORITY in Sonora to protect us from local terrorists from attacking and harming our property and our persons.
What good is the law when the executive branch does not honor and apply the law blindly? What good are rulings from the Mexican Supreme Court when the executive branch will not honor them? What good are rulings handed down from the Sonora State Appeals Court when the executive branch will not honor them? I am tired of hearing from members of the Sonoran government that our isolated problem is a “SOCIAL” problem and not a legal problem!
We have title to a piece of land, not much, but legally purchased and paid in full, with a clean title that has been upheld by a 1998 Mexican Supreme Court ruling. Yet we have a bunch of hoodlums physically throwing us off our land and using Molotov cocktails and machetes and other weapons and it is called a social problem. A problem between private parties. I repeat, this is not Puerto Peñasco, it is the next powder keg, El Golfo de Santa Clara.
I have arrest warrants that have NOT been executed, sitting gathering dust because the EXECUTIVE BRANCH does not deem it necessary to execute these warrants!!!
Last time I checked the executive branch enforces the law, not the judicial branch. I had to sue the Sonoran government in Federal court (through an amparo) in order for them to execute my arrest warrants. I was denied the “Amparo” because no constitutional right was being violated by the state not enforcing their own arrest warrants. Currently, I await a response from the federal appeals court in order to force the executive branch to enforce a ruling from the state judicial branch! Although some of the indicted people are now subject to the judicial proceedings, not all have bothered to turn themselves in. Not one of these thugs has spent as much as a minute behind bars because of my arrest warrants.
How much training does a real estate agent need in the State of Sonora in order to get the executive branch to enforce it own laws? How much due diligence must foreign investors use in order to get the Sonoran Government to enforce their own laws?
I have clean title, yet I have squatters on my land because they have weapons and the ability to protest. How many credentials will get the Sonoran Government to protect the American investor from fraud and the violence? How much……..?
Their are MAJOR problems with real estate investment in Sonora, that must be addressed with real concrete solutions not just rhetoric
Pedro
Shawna, Along with the CONCESSION for beachfront places RP has what they call a "Luxury Tax" on beach front home along with the normal city Taxes. My understanding is this money stays in RP.
ReplyDeleteWhen you pay your yearly city tax you go see Mario Chavez first to get the fee cost. Then you take it to the cashier to pay both fees at once. This has nothing to do with the concession fees. If you have never paid the beach front fee before you need to take a copy of your bank trust so Mario can figure the meters. They go back 4-5 years to collect the fee.
If you buy at completed projects/resales your chances of fraud and financial loss is very low. The challenge is when Developers are building using deposit money only. Even if the North Beach title issue had not happened I think the slow down in the economy would have created the same problems on the under capitalized projects.
ReplyDeleteGary D
ReplyDeleteI do believe you missed the point of the vast majority of the posts on this blog.
Pedro
ATTORNEY INFO
ReplyDeleteBen Baker wrote:
Be aware that there is no Bar exam for attorneys in Mexico AND it is common for attorneys to represent both sides of a transaction. That is what I think is going on and it is perfectly legal there. We did the first fideocomiso in Penasco and had to use the head of the banks trust dept as our attorney.
Pedro. I guess I did from your perspective but what I am reading is that North Beach is and has been a problem and so is all of Mexico. GaryD
ReplyDeleteGary D
ReplyDeleteIt is an unfortunate fact! I hope future investors looking for the "American Dream" south of the border do it fully informed of the situation.
Although I stand to loose financially, I fully intend to inform as many people as I can of the risks involved with purchasing property in Mexico (maybe I should limit my statement to Sonora). I don't want the next guy to be told that they too have a social problem and not a legal one!
What a nightmare!
the fight continues
Pedro
pedro has hit the nail on the head. How do you force the Mexican government to enforce their own laws? Sadly, the local mexican thugs are always protected and any 'bad' news about foreigner's investments being stolen are eliminated from the newspapers. Scare tactics, immigration harassment, paid for radio spots slamming the American or Canadian who try to legally appose the theft make it difficult for all of these stories to come out of the closet.
ReplyDeleteMexico fears news stories in the US. Bours has anew project starting in San Carlos. Must sell more condos..........We need a reporter for a hot story here. We have all documents!
You guys are not the only people losing money because of shenanigans and snakes who live in Rocky Point. I bought a condo last year after talking with the owner of Seaside Reservations. I think his name was Steve Schoub who told me he would rent my condo and put $2,000 a month in my pocket. He went on to tell me how he'd be around forever in Rocky Point because he had so much invested like a childrens charity, college for employees, and other things. I beleivedhim and bought the condo and signed up for SR to rent it. Well I have never gotten anything close to $2,000 a month. I haven't had any renters for months even though spring brake just finished. Now my condo has depreciated about $100,000 from what I paid for it and I cant make thepayments any longer. I was foolish and took a 2nd out on my Tucson home to pay for my condo expecting the rental money to make my payments. You guys are not the only losers in town. I hate this guy.
ReplyDeleteCan I be so bold as to ask about the Mexcian representation that has been used in the past and your current representation?
ReplyDeleteI am really curious as to how you feel about teh term "Fudiciary" and or " Efficacy" when it comes to describing your past or present lawyers and or the state of legal practice or procedures in Mexico.
I can tell you some stories that would make the hair on your back cringe, even if you don't have hair on your back it would still cringe.
For those of you that would rather not share your experience publicly but would like to share it with me anyway privately you can email me (with Howard's permission of course) @ elgolfo1@gmail.com
Thanks
Pedro
Never never never take equity from your home to buy a rental property whether it is in Mexico or the USA. I know 3 people who did the same as "I have lost also" but they did it in AZ and they not only lost the rental homes but they have also lost thier residence homes as well. It is a gamble to assume that property values will go up and you can get someone else to pay the morthgage. Take your money to Vegas and put it on Black or Red you have better odds of winning.
ReplyDeletehis name is spelled schwab. email me if you want his address and phone #. how do people like steve schwab sleep at night?
ReplyDeleteCame across this article. And the beat goes on. How sad.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.azstarnet.com/metro/232629
For those of you that have been following my story of El Golfo, we were just dealt a serious blow to our efforts to get our land back from the thugs that threw us off the land in the first place.
ReplyDeleteJust goes to show you anything is possible when you deal with a Mexican government. It's a crap shoot to say the least.
Here we are spending hard earn cash to legally purchase property and the local thugs use Molotov cocktails and machetes and corrupt politicians to steal the land from unsuspecting Americans. Justice Mexican style!!!
The director of tourism spoke at the meeting on March 5 in Phoenix stating that the problem lies with the judicial branch not with the executive branch. I thought that was a pretty bold and stupid thing to say. but here we are, over $200,000 in costs associated with this legal (i apologize) "social problem" and do not get the land but are still the legal owners of the land. I guess only the Mexican government can explain this situation in better terms becasue this gringo is toooooo stupid to understand how it is OK to use violence to acquire property from Americans that are not interested in selling!!!
WOW!!
Unbelievable!!!
Pedro
Megaladon says:
ReplyDeleteMarch 30th 2008 @8:03.21 pm
I think that your reporting, Blog, and comments are great and should make any investor do their due diligences for any kind of investment here in Mexico regardlas of where it is. Arizona has been known for Real Restate Scams for 30 years and even now. People should deal with real estate agents that are with a renowned agency and not agents sitting at the site that promises everything to those that see and feel the dream. Go with those that live and work here in Puerto Penasco and know what is going on. Stay away from the onsite sales people that work only for that property. Yes, there are very good property sales people and we will let you know where.
Please keep in mind that the local government of Guaymas------supports-====and will not prosecute the antics of the Ordaz family against foreign investors! The City council member Jose Ordaz was over heard calling all foreigners-fucking gingos!
ReplyDeleteTrust the judicial system of Mexico?
Think again.
Well first of all I would like to thank this great website for letting everyone express thier opinions and horrible statements. My first question is how could anyone make such a huge investment with out being 100% percent sure about whats goin on?? This is the 20th century one must do the reserch to know exactly who you are dealing with not take anybodys word or documentation without knowing all the facts.
ReplyDeleteProfNickD says:
ReplyDelete2008-4-11 @ 8:04:58 pm
Even though the investors in North Beach likely did not perform due diligence on their part to secure their interests, it’s doubtful that their interests could have been secured even if they had because basic questions such as “Who owns North Beach?” simply cannot be answered.
I had been considering purchasing in Penasco after prices decrease further, given the current housing decline. After reading about the North Beach issue, I wouldn’t purchase any property in Mexico even for $1 per square foot.
HIRE A LICENSED REALTOR IN MEXICO
ReplyDeleteAfter years of discussion it is now a reality. You can get representation from a licensed real estate professional in Mexico. Mexican officials are watching closely as the state of Sonora works towards total accountability from its real estate professionals. Sonora’s push towards licensing is led by Sonora’s Governor Eduardo Bours Castelo, and overseen by Secretary of Economy of the State of Sonora, Internal Trade Department, Lic. Rodolfo Elias Calles Dingfelder.
About a year ago Mexico’s National Association of Realtors, called AMPI started requiring its members to be certified at the state level. This certification included criminal background checks, (For foreigners this means background checks in their country of origin, as well as Mexico.), fingerprinting, as well as continuing education classes to insure the highest level of trust and security.
Because of AMPI’s quest for accountability from its members, the now international association of realtors, NAR, includes AMPI members as equals. With this accreditation made official in Washington in October of 2006, AMPI members are allowed to call themselves Realtors, which is a protected brand that is not thrown around loosely.
The latest in a long series of events leading towards the actual licensing is a course sponsored by the state that is 109 hours of intense real estate studies. The topics included in this month long crash course were intended to provide actual and current technical and administrative skills to participants allowing them to improve their performance in Real Estate activities. So as, analyzing the legislation of both the federal and state judicial dispositions regarding Real Estate property, as well as talking over issues pertaining to taxation, city development, appraisals, trusts, sales strategies, and ethics in the real estate field. The instructors were all national leaders in their respective professions, and came from all over Mexico. This real estate diplomado course was held at Puerto Peñasco’s university Instituto Tecnologico Superior de Puerto Peñasco.
The first graduating class in Puerto Peñasco, Sonora finished with 26 students in attendance. It was an intense month of long days, but the content was extremely viable information that anyone calling themselves a real estate professional in Mexico should understand. Rocky Point currently has about 200 people practicing as real estate agents.
With licensing a reality, the security of future investments in Mexico will continue to grow exponentially. The resort communities have been discovered by investment pioneers and speculators for a number of years, and every year as the comfort level of ownership becomes more and more understood the number of property owners grows as well. However, for years there have been people without any accountability representing properties that have less than positive status. There are several projects in Rocky Point right now, some with good intentions that will probably have problems succeeding. It is the responsibility of Real Estate professional to educate would be buyers with full and integral disclosure of the securities that are in place to protect them, as well as any underlying facts that may surface. With the credentials available, and now law, any investor should make sure that the person asking for their money can show them a license.
It will be one of the responsibilities of Mexico’s National Association of Realtors, AMPI, to oversee and report violations to local and state officials regarding non licensed individuals involved in Real Estate transactions. The actual penalties; Fines, deportations, and other severe consequences will be levied by local authorities, AMPI has been asked to report directly to those officials.
Kent White
Realty Executives
AMPI President
Mr White,
ReplyDeleteI applaud the efforts of Gov Bours to try to get his house in order. I think that regulating the licensees is a good start, however, the problems associated with ownership in Mexico go WAY deeper than a piece of paper that says a person is qualified to practice real estate in the state of Sonora because they took a course or two.
Requiring FULL DISCLOSURE would be another positive step.
How would a salesperson fully "qualified" guarantee to the American investor that their title is a clean and valid one? How would the "Qualified" salespersom force the local, municipal and state authorities to enforce their own laws? How do you enforce the edicts handed down by local judges,State tribunals and the Mexican Supreme Court?
Let's not jump for joy because the existence a piece of paper that demonstrates that a person is fully qualified to practice real estate in the State of Sonora!
The problems are much deeper in Sonora than just having "unqualified" people practicing real estate.
If we were to take the example of my real estate problems in Sonora, everybody would come up with the same conclusion that a "qualified" real estate person that sold us this piece of property would not and could not get the Sonoran government to enforce their own laws! Given that, what would be the next move necessary to get the Sonoran Gov't to enforce their own laws to "reasonably" protect the foreign investor? I believe that that process is taking shape on many different fronts. The meetings being held in Phoenix have accelerated and heightened the awareness of the problems with real estate in Sonora, I am not limiting the problems to just foreign investors but also including Mexican citizens as well. It is unfortunate that dirty laundry had to be aired this way, but many positive things have happened since those meetings for both the investors in Rocky Point and the investors in El Golfo.
Your advertisement expoused on this blog appears to me self serving trying to assure the foreign investor that they should invest in Sonora because they will be protected; far from the truth in my humble opinion. The system is broken in desperate need of a total overhaul! When people start going to jail for their actions things might to shift in favor of the foreign investor, not before.
just my 2 cents worth
Pedro
Why are the developers continuing to build at Playa Dorada--I thought the City of Puerto Penasco had stopped all building. Doesn't this continuing development mean more people will buy and not have legal title to their property?
ReplyDeleteThere also seems to be a second sewage storage place with still no pump and I am concerned that houses are being hooked up to it. Where does it go when it is filled???????? Will we be getting raw sewage in our lots at Playa Dorada??????? What is going on here?????????
The construction crews continue to move dirt, dig holes and put in what appear to be roads on the dunes behind the beach houses. We have pictures of a second sewage holding tank being built below the tidal level (below the tide line so that when the tide is in the hole fills with sea water) within 60 meters of the high tide line behind the existing beach homes. There is no sewage treatment plant, no pump, or lines running over the dune to a city hook up. Where will this sewage go when the tank is full? Is the city of Rocky Point issueing permits for this kind of work in spite of an emparo against the property? If not, someone is very comfortable violating the law and destroying the ecosysystem on the beach. When will it stop - no one seems to know.
ReplyDeleteI believe the people that can stop it are the newly "licensed" real estate people that can solve the land problems of Sonora. They are now qualified!
ReplyDeletePedro
Memo to Kent White, I liked what you had to say in the above post until I saw you work at Realty Executives in RP which is owned by Steve Schwab. Your credibility went down the toilet once you mentioned this!
ReplyDeleteJust read the April issue of Rocky Point Times. As usual, the "major players" are trying to paint a pretty picture of the rosy real estate market in Penasco by asking their colleagues to dwell on the positives and continue to ignore the REAL problems in Rocky Point. You can bet anything positive is going to be fabricated by real estate agents who realize that there are many problems in Rocky Point that can't be easily fixed. Maybe they should talk to the hundreds of investors who have lost thousands of dollars in sour real estate investments. When they speak of the high tourist traffic in Rocky Point they must not have read about the airline flight from Los Angels that was discontinued due to lack of activity. You might also want to take a look at the web site www.penascoinsider.org that Kent White refers to in his article. If this is Penasco's real estate "professionals" that put this site together, I would certainly not want depend on them to handle any real estate investment.
ReplyDeleteDonna - regarding the sewer holding tank in Dorado - they probably patterned it off the other "mess" in NorthBeach where their sewage holding tanks are no more than steel rings with no processing equipment. Mexico continues to use "Hollywood facades" to try and convince people that the area is progressing positively. It would be nice if the Rocky Point Times would be honest in addressing the "real" problems rather than misleading potential investors with their continued stories about "Margaritaville".
I have just returned from a(nother) wonderful weekend in Rocky Point. I have been renting roughly 9-10 weekends a year since early '05 and am glad I didn't buy when I first started vacationing.
ReplyDeleteThis past weekend I noticed that work has apparently stopped on three Sandy Beach projects: Acropolis, Esmeralda, and Plaza Meli del Sol.
Acropolis has completed a model, along with an open coffee shop, but otherwise nothing else since mid '07.
Work on the Esmeralda looks to be aimed at finishing three of the planned seven towers. Work on the fourth (center) tower remains a steel skeleton with no visible improvements on it since mid '07.
Plaza Meli del Sol has erected a steel skeleton but otherwise no visible work has been performed since mid-late '07.
GOLDEN SHOWER FOR THE GOLDEN BEACH
ReplyDeleteHere in Playa Dorada O'Farrill and Adams are up to the same dirty tricks. Building sewage holding facilities with no place to pump the sewage and no permits. So, is it just going to remain in these huge tanks? Or are they going to leach it into the sand and then into the ocean for the benefit of those who already live here? ( I suppose that would be one way of getting rid of the people who got here before they did) Rumor has it that they think the City of Penasco is going to bring city sewer out here just for them. The truth is that the city would never recover the money that it would cost them to bring municipal sewage to Playa Dorada. The 25 homes that the developers are planning for and the number of homes that exist do not warrant the city of Penasco spending millions of dollars to make O'Farrill and Adams Happy Campers, plus the fact the city knows that the property is in litigation. So, hope you all enjoy the shower made possible by Barlovento Estates S. de R.L. (Doug Adams and Raul O'Farrill)
i think Kent is right. Although an honest realtor can't say so in public do to many issues (for one you could get on the bad side of bad men) guys like Kent warn you off problem properties.I know this first hand.
ReplyDeleteI have never understood why all the real estate companies & developers in Penasco sell & advertise everything in US dollars. Is Puerto Penasco actually in Mexico where the currency of the country is the Mexican peso?
ReplyDeleteRene
ReplyDeleteThe dollar is king in Mexico. For the most part, almost all business contracts are written in US Dollars because of the instability of the Mexican Peso (historically speaking). It is not limited to Rocky Point. It occurs everywhere in Mexico.
Pedro
A $ 150,000.00 house would be $1,560,000.00 pesos at an exchange rate of 10.4 to the dollar. I assume people would be scared by that if they didnt know the exchange rate.
ReplyDeleteSo Pedro, the local Mexicans out in the neighborhoods have to buy their homes for US Dollars? When they buy a car is it in US dollars?
ReplyDeleteAnd, 'almost all' business contracts throughout Mexico are written in US dollars?
If it's all US dollars why do the Mexican business newspapers & things like the Bolsa (Mexican Stock Market) all list amounts of contracts,business deals, sales,values in Mexican Pesos?
Really interesting question Rene brought up!
ReplyDeleteMy friend down there who is a local Mexican citizen bought a lot from the City of Puerto Penasco. It was valued & sold to him cheap in Mexican Peso's. His house was also sold to him by other Mexicans & paid for in Peso's he told me.
It seems there is maybe a double standard going on.
The foreign tourists who visit 'Rocky Point' pay for property in more expensive US dollars in a US dollar valued real estate market.
The local Mexicans in Puerto Penasco pay far cheaper prices out in the Mexican neighborhoods in a Peso's valued real estate market.
It is protection for the creditor from devaluation of the Mexican Peso. It used to be a huge problem, everytime the Office of the President would change hands they would plunder the country's $$$ and devaluation usually always followed. Sales prices can be in either Pesos or Dollars but payment contracts usually are tied to the almighty dollar.
ReplyDeletePedro
They way I see it, everybody has too much time in their hands so we find the negative easily and minimize the positive.
ReplyDeleteI challenge you to find the positive in Rocky Point whether you are a tourist or an investor or resident. Do it for 3 minutes and I am sure that you will see that it is not that bad...
Good luck.
Pete
ReplyDeleteI apologize for the "Freudian slip" with the words almost all. I should said a great deal of or a great many contracts are tied to the dollar. Shall we define what "is" is, as well?
Pedro
Hey Steve, when i'm spending my hard earned US dollars in a foreign country I want value & to make the most of difference in the exchange rates.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a multi millionaire from California.
I just don't find real value in Penasco. I can buy a home in Arizona for what the US real estate agents are charging for a small condo in the tourist zones of Rocky Point.
When I look up the MLS listings on the internet for Puerto Penasco there is only one unfinished house located out in the Mexican neighborhoods where the actual citizens of the town live for $40,000 US dollars.
With a local Mexican population of well over 50,000 people out in the neighborhoods there is obviously another real estate market at work there.
Yes there is another Mexican real estate market. It consist of homes with no sewer service, no water to the home only holding tanks, some with no electricity either. Things are changing down there but you get what you pay for. If you want ocean view or breachfront, electricity, sewers, water and other American amenities then you pay , as you say, the price of what a home in the US costs, at least in RP. As a home owner in RP I have read this blog with much interest. It continues to surprise me how many people go into foreign real estate investments blindly. Greed in the US and elsewhere is the problem. And to those of you complaining about the cost, etc, maybe you need to take a look and ask yourself if you are not the least bit jealous that someone has a piece of paradise that you would also love to have.
ReplyDeleteActually, many of the housing units claimed to have so-called "American-style" amenities (and, of course, being sold in US dollars) in fact do *not* have these amenities -- water is not potable; roads are paved in most (not all) tourist areas but have no surface markings, proper signage or drainage; there are no sidewalks; there are no streetlights; there is no reliable local or long distance phone service; and there is no reliable high speed internet.
ReplyDeleteUntil this "American-style" basic infrastructure and amenities are fully developed I would never pay more than $100/square foot for any property anywhere in Penasco.
The local Mexican neighborhoods of the 'other real estate market' Kramer mentions is the actual Town & City limits of Puerto Penasco. It was the first to be built, the first to get electricity,water,sewer,trash pick up,etc many years ago.
ReplyDeleteAll of these utilities run right down the center of every street within the City of Puerto Penasco. The electricity is on the power poles running down the side of every street.
It is still legally the very first priority of the City of Puerto Penasco to supply these local areas with the city services.
The developments outside of the City Limits were told back in the 1990's that they would only be supplied utilities after the citizens in Puerto Penasco were first taken care of. And that they would have to supply their own water sources.
You don't even get what you pay for here if you are a foreigner buying out in the tourist zones.
Those living in the Mexican neighborhoods pay just a fraction of what the foreigners pay for utilities & property taxes out in Tourist Zone areas.
My property taxes run $72 US dollars a year. My Electricity runs Approximately $45 a month and my water runs $100 quarterly. Don't think that I am paying too much. Wish I could pay those kind of taxes and utilities in the States.
ReplyDeleteI am looking for other investors in Villa Cortez, I am trying to find out if there is a way we can consolidate our efforts to resolve the "no progress" is there any one out there than wants to join forces?
ReplyDeleteKramer
ReplyDeleteIn El Golfo Sonora, our property taxes run about $75 per year. our water bill was about $5.00 per month (about 2.5 acres on the beach). My cost to date fighting the Sonoran corruption not including interest expense is around $230,000 That's a monetary expense, not counting toll it has taken on my mind, body and most importantly my family!.
Our property has a million dollar view but only in pictures because we can't access our property. In the U.S. nobody has chased my family, or workers off our lands with Molotav Cocktails or machetes!!
Shall we continue to compare Mexican real estate to U.S. real estate?
Lets compare apples with apples.
Pedro
Debbie, take a look at www.puertopenascopost.com. Paul has an article that will be of interest to you on Villa Cortez.
ReplyDeleteOur taxes went from $87 last year to $480 this year. In the same area and even next door they are paying much less and the lot sizes are the same. If you pay taxes according to square meters and beachfront, how can the city charge us 2 and 1/2 the amount of others in Playa Dorada? Can anyone explain this?
ReplyDeletePlaya Dorada Beachfront homeowners paid over $240,000.00 to get our banktrusts completed...We did our homework and trusted one of the most high profile attorneys in Sonora. (In which contracts, conditions, rules, etc. were inserted by him and the development behind us.) We were told by our representative, who told our attorney, he was taking full responsibility, that we needed to sign the trusts quickly or the price was going up because of legal fees. Consequently, we trusted our representative and the high profile lawyer, and signed a trust that most Dorada homeowners had no clue what was in store for them. It wasn't translated for us. We now have lost 5 meters of the depth of our property in which walls and buildings have been threatened by the development. The walls, houses and buildings were there years before Northbeach and the development arrived on the property. The high profile attorney admitted that he knew about the shortage, but didn't want to stop the process or disclose to his clients, the property shortage.
ReplyDeleteThe point is, don't trust even your best friend,,,read it for yourself.. The residual left over is that you can't borrow, build on or sell, without disclosing that two different entities own parts of the property.
,,,,A Dorada homeowner has three lots,,,,He contracted with Northbeach (German Palicio) and obtained three trusts...The problem was, one of the trusts written were misnumbered and the above homeowner discovered the trust was on the wrong property. Northbeach said to "go ahead and sign it anyway, he could correct it with no problem later". After 8 months of meetings and much more money, the trusts were corrected. The beach sure is pretty though.
ReplyDeleteAre these "Northbeach Palicio's" the same Palicio's that are related to two of the former Mayor's of Penasco?
ReplyDeleteThe father got elected as mayor and built a big house overlooking the Hermosa beach, and next his son got elected mayor of Penasco and has a big house in the Mirador area?
'Vic', no matter where you are if the paperwork is not correct never sign it until it is corrected! You should sue German Palicio to pay you back for any extra expenses it cost you to get your trusts!
Did they list a PO Box in the US? If you are from the US report the matter to the FBI & US Postal Investigators for investigation and don't waste your time with local officials.
I'm responding to the posts regarding doing business in Mexico in Pesos (MXN) or U.S. Dollars (USD)
ReplyDeleteThe national currency in Mexico is the peso. At least in Rocky Point it is legal to contract in USD and even register the cost of the property in the deed (escritura) in USD.
But, when a property is sold or purchased in USD, the USD is converted to MXN for the purposes of paying capital gains, paying transfer taxes, and paying Public Registration fees. During this conversion from USD to MXN their exists the opportunity to be vunerable to the currency exchange.
So the moral of the story is, when buying or selling in USD, make sure you ask for the exchange rate for any amounts converted to MXN to assure that you are getting the fair market value for the exchange and not some exchange rate that isn't favorable to you.
This message is geared to those people that think that Sonora's new "certification" of real estate agents is going to protect the American investor of Sonoran real estate. I just received word that a local civil judge from the City of San Luis Rio Colorado just awarded TITLE of our land in El Golfo de Santa Clara to the SQUATTERS that were evicted on March 23 of 2007! How is that for due process!! I didn't even know about this court case. How did I find out about the new owners to our land; well they presented their new title to the municipal water company and were promptly given water service!! How convenient! Still think Sonora is a safe investment?
ReplyDeletePedro
I see nobody is challenging my assertion that it is very easy to steal other people's land by finding a not so sympathetic judge. Proof in my situation is posted at www.elgolfonews.com. under the breaking news section.
ReplyDeleteI welcome everybody to acquaint themselves with a too common of a practice in Sonora.
I might rant, but I back all my claims with FACTS not rumors!
Pedro
Pedro, where is El Golfo de Santa Clara located? What major city is it close to? Sorry to hear you are also getting ripped off, but how far from Puerto Penasco is the development you invested in? As you know there is no due process of law in Mexico to citizens....Let alone foreigners.
ReplyDeleteYou can write that total loss off on your US Federal taxes, and take $3,000 a year till you use it up.
Our Puerto Penasco real estate agent was a member of 'AMPI' back in the 1990's, that didn't make one bit of difference as she made us pay in US dollars for a property that was being sold in Peso's by the owner.
Who kept the difference in the exchange rate? It sure wasn't us!
Mary
ReplyDeleteEL Golfo is about 80 miles north of rocky point. It is at the end of the new coastal highway that Gov Bours' administration is building. We are about 75 miles south of Yuma, crossing at San Luis Rio Colorado.
If I were to take advantage of that "write off" I would take $3,000 a year for (240,000 divided by 3000) = 80 years!! And that is just for the fight to get the land back not including the land acquisition costs!
I think I won't be using that write off nor should I have to.
I hope to be attending the Border States Governor's conference to be held here in my backyard of Hollywood California. Somebody will listen to me that this nonsense has got to stop. Hopefully, we can have positive news prior to our meeting on June 19 in Phoenix Arizona!
I did not invest in a development; I invested as a developer on a piece of beachfront lot. We were hoping to build a hotel with a nightclub and restaurants. Our title is good but the locals want it for themselves. The court has recognized our title otherwise the eviction would not have taken place of my squatters last March 23, 2007. Enforcement of the law and protection from criminals is the problem and now that a judge has GIVEN away our land makes this indignant act more nauseating and revolting than making me angry! I have become somewhat immune to surprises because they happen as routine as the sun rises and sets!
I have given every courtesy to Bours to try to get his attention by emailing his office his personal secretary and his representative in Phoenix before going to the media. Sometimes, the boss is that last to receive bad news, sometimes they never do. It is painfully apparent to me, that he really doesn't give a hoot about our situation otherwise he would have or had an aide write back and acknowledge that they are trying to mitigate this mess but they remain silent. But I won't! I will continue to rant and rave and get the word out because what I have been going through (3 years come June 2) should be inflicted on any foreign investor!
It is my mission to help the Arizona and California Dept of Real Estate issue a WARNING to everybody about what can potentially happen to them if they too decide to invest in Sonora. My beef is not with Mexico, just with Sonora.
Pedro
Mary,
ReplyDeleteI forgot to mention. Our project started out by my parents wanting to retire in El Golfo. They are both in their 70's. My parents are dual citizens. So they purchased the beachfront section 4000 square meters. Then when the other half of the parcel became available, I bought it so that we could use the beach for their / our beach house, and the portion on the street side for the motel / business side of it. Parcel is about 190 meters long.
That was the initial plan, then the nightmare kicked into high gear.
Pedro
Looking for any addional info on the La Perla del Mar project in Mirador. www.laperladelmarinfo.com. My family and friends invested in 4 total units here in 2005 with nearly half a million US Dollars in deposits paid out. Construction, if you can call it that, stopped a while ago and we have received no additional info. I have retained an attorney and would like to know if anyone else has invested in this project?
ReplyDeleteI would also like a list of other REPUTABLE bi-lingual lawyers if any.
Thanks
If anyone ever goes to the rockypoint online to book room you will notice the new owner has shut down the forum.It was full of great fishing advise,where to stay,what to bring,border issues and a 3 year record of any one with a brain(most of the forum regulars) calling bullshit on the condomania.I can't tell you how many e-mails i received from people that just missed being screwed in these projects listed on Rockypointexposed (way to go man!) but everything is being swept under the rug again. The los Palomas blog has been shut down too. Bottom line if it hasn't been built keep you cash in your pocket unless you are feeling lucky.
ReplyDeleteIf anybody cares to join me in Hollywood, California this August 13-15 all the key players will be present at the annual Border States Governor's Conference. This year it will be held in my backyard (figuratively speaking of course) and I do believe that I will be exersicing my right of free speech and exposing my / our problems with the Sonoran way of dealing with American investors in Sonora.
ReplyDeleteLast year I with held my full page open letters to Gov Bours becasue they promised me arrest warrants the day before the deadline to pay for my manifestations in the paper. It was never my intention to embarrass Gov Bours, I just wanted my arrest warrants. Well needless to say, they won that battle as well, they gave me what I wanted, I didn't run the ads and they got what they wanted without giving up anything because a higher being simply ordered the arrest warrants to be burried and not executed.
I do believe this year will be different!
the fight continues
Pedro
Just went on it and there are recent posts as of last week. I don't see where it has been shut down.
ReplyDeletePedro,
ReplyDeleteYou were threatened with arrest? I'd like to hear more (not that I don't believe it).
I can't view the blog either.
ReplyDeletePedro
ProfNickD
ReplyDeleteAlthough there have been many attempts to arrest me for trying to get my land back this is not the case I when I referred to me wanting my arrest warrants. My case went through the appeals court but was NOT resolved! No action was taken and the law CLEARLY stipulates that they have 10 days which to issue an opinion either uphold or overturn! Last straw for me I went ballistic I was very upset to say the least!
I had been fighting with the attorney generals office to bring charges against those that committed violent crimes against my workers or myself and I was going nowhere really fast! So when I heard that Arnold (my governor) was flying to Puerto Peñasco for a conference with Gov Bours, Gov Napolitano and President Calderon, I decided it was time to go public with my case.
First I wrote a letter to Arnold asking for his intervention because of all the violence and corruption we were facing and since he thinks it's ok to invite Americans notably residents of California to invest in Mexico, he would be a good person to provide some kind of support.
I then contacted the newspaper and got a quote on full-page ads (open letters) and solicited permission to run the ads in English. I then created the first 2 ads along with the letter I sent to Arnold and emailed them to Gov Bours representative in Phoenix via my American attorney Valerie Todorovich (Phoenix) I don't believe the boss should be the last to know about problems and I had to give Bours the opportunity to right the wrong before I went after him publicly.
One of the ads was directed to Arnold asking for him to ask Gov Bours why Americans were not entitled to police protection or jurisprudence, with pictures of my trailer being thrown off my land. It set off a hornet’s nest with an immediate phone call from the rep offering a meeting in Phoenix with the representatives of Sonora (never happened until March 5 of this year because of Howard’s efforts. (I coat tailed the meeting because I believe it was for the Rocky point investors)
I received a phone call on my cell from a member of the Bours administration telling me that my arrest warrants would be issued by the next day. I thanked this person and told them that all I was looking for was what I was entitled to nothing more but nothing less as well.
I didn't run the ads, I did not embarrass Gov Bours or President Calderon, I had my arrest warrants against the criminals that threw us off our land and took physical possession. But in the end the state of Sonora won because "somebody" gave the order not to execute the arrest warrants!
I will look for those ads I was going to run and post them on my blog so everybody can be entertained.
I have had THREE long years battling the Bours administartion with no end in sight! I am looking forward to meeting him at the Governors conference in August.
Pedro
rockypointonline.com has moved to RockyPointTalk.net. All the history is gone but the site is up for new posts. Welcome back!!!
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have the date, time and location of the upcoming June followup border conference in Phoenix?
ReplyDeleteAttn: Howard Israel
ReplyDeleteFyi a famous upscale furniture store in Scottsdale called Robb & Stuckey are having a seminar this Thursday 05 June about a new development called Tessoro at Los Conchas which I was thinking about planning to attend. After reviewing your website and what everone has to say about what is going on in Rocky Point, I am very skeptical about this building project which is supposed to open up in 2009. I would be most grateful if you have any insight into who is behind this project and are they legitimate or just "scam artists" like some of the recent others?
Please advise and thank you for your time in advance.
Sincerely,
Kevin
Yes, I would like to know as well. when is the conference?
ReplyDeleteFellow Americans,
ReplyDeleteIf you get the chance to be present at the meeting in Phoenix on Thursday June 19th at the Dept of Real Estate Comissioners' office, be glad you got a meeting, for we the Americans fighting for our land in El Golfo were disinvited from our meeting with the representatives of the Bours administration! Say hello to them for me! The fight continues.
Pedro
Pedro,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the time and place of the meeting?
Thank you.
The June 19th meeting is @ 10 am,
ReplyDeleteAz Dept of Real Estate,
Commissioner's conference room,
2910 N 44th St,
Phoenix, Az, 85018,
602-468-1414
PS. Call to see if you are included in the specific projects to be discussed.
ProfNickD
ReplyDeleteEl Golfo people were DISINVITED, from the previously scheduled meeting. On March 5th, we met privately with the same people that met with the rest of the Rocky Point group. We were promised continuous status updates from the governor’s special envoy Mr Lopez Vucotich. We got absolutely no communication from this man. He never once took any of our calls nor did he return them. They get upset that I tell the world what is happening in El Golfo through my blog. Go figure?? EVERYTHING IS PEACHY AND ROSY!
I will however, get my message across to the people of California, Arizona and Sonora if I have to start taking out full-page ads. I was stupid for believing them once before and didn't run my ads. Now, it is a whole new ballgame. From being ostracized by the Bours administration, to having our lands given away by the local judge, I think it will be different this time around. I have sent private emails Bours is office, personal secretary or aide (not sure of his role) and Bours' representative in Phoenix pleading for communication so I did not have to air dirty laundry in public and have not received one response; not a single one! Well I think it is time to start to do a public washing of all the dirty little secrets that have created a nightmare in my life!
By the way, it was very nice of them to not even notify us directly of the cancellation of the meeting schedule at the commissioner’s office tomorrow the 19th. If it wouldn't have been for Mary Utley (to whom I owe a great many thanks for being bombarded with all of our many emails and phone call, and there have been many) It demonstrates the willingness of the Bours administration, to right the wrongs of the injustices done to us! The can run but they can't hide! They will be in my backyard this August and I will pay them a visit there!
The fight continues
Pedro
Some people have asked what I meant about being "disinvited" to today’s meeting. El Golfo group had a different meeting aside form the North Beach group.
ReplyDeleteWhat I should have said is that they backed out; in Spanish that means, "se rajaron!" They cancelled our meeting without even telling us of the cancellation.
Diplomacy in action!
Pedro
I had to miss this weeks meeting because of a business trip, but if someone could give an overview, that would be great.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Blaze
from an anonymous source that the reason that you can put your $ towards palomas or bella is that they are funding the north beach litigation. sonorans will not be able to offer you that as we are not involved in the litigation. bella was selling riviera real which is why they are involved in the litigation and las palomas got involved in the litigation so they could take all those clients and turn them into LAS PALOMAS clients. so LP is smart!!!!
ReplyDeleteMaylyss, You may be correct about who is funding the NorthBeach litigation but the problem goes much further than that. The Sonoran government officials had 3 1/2 months to produce a legitimate proposal to help the NorthBeach investors and for wahtever reason offered nothing. Why would the NorthBeach investors want to invest in a nother troubled property of which there are many in Rocky Point. Anyone who invests in a property with $850.00 per month association fees should have their head examined. I guess the Sonoran officials will pull their heads out when 20/20 arrives in town to investigate the pitfalls of investing in Mexican real estate.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why the Sonoran officials never called the Rocky Point fiasco a "social Problem" like they classified the El Golfo situation where the land ownership is concrete and tangible.
ReplyDeleteIt is still inexplicable the fact that Sonoran representatives uninvited the El Golfo group from meeting with them in Phoenix on the previously scheduled date of June 19th 2008 without even notifying us!
What makes this whole Sonora real estate disaster for me less palatable is the fact that my state government, lead by the Honorable Arnold Schzarzenegger believes the Sonoran government when it comes to our particular situation in El Golfo.
Sonora informed the representatives of the great State of California, that the situation in El Golfo consisted of squatters not wanting to vacate our property. That is what I was told and that the State of California could do NOTHING for me. The person in Schwarzenegger’s office that told this didn’t even believe me when I informed him that the State of Arizona was taking a LEADERSHIP position and trying to mediate and facilitate meetings between those affected and the Sonoran Government. I told him I couldn’t understand how Arizona, a state that I do not reside in, would invite me to participate in these meetings and the State of California of which we are residents, would ignore us and not do ANYTHING to protect it’s constituents from future “social problems” when investing in Sonora.
The representatives of Sonora never mentioned the attacks with Molotov Cocktails or the death threats or the machetes or the fact that after three years not one person has been arrested because of the crimes committed against us. They didn’t mention the fact that even though I have arrest warrants issued against the criminals, they will not be enforced! They didn’t inform the state of California either that we have VALID LEGAL tile that was recognized by the Mexican Supreme Court in 1997 and again by the Agrarian court in may of 2007! They didn’t even tell them of the meetings being held in Phoenix for those investors that have been burned by Sonoran real estate transactions! But the State of California believes the Sonora position!
A very wise man once said, “Trust; but verify!”
If the State of California does not believe my story, and they don’t believe my legal documentation, then at the very least, they should call somebody in the Arizona government to see what’s up with real estate in Sonora not to mention the violence in El Golfo!
No wonder why my state (California) is so screwed up!
Kudos to Gov. Napolitano, for she has done more for my family than my own government and we are not of the same political parties! Maybe 20/20 should start with the gullible representatives of my government!
Pedro, I symphathize with you for your struggle with the real estate problems in El Golfo. While you indicate that California is not willing to help resolve your issues let me inform you of the most recent events regarding the Arizona Dept of Real Estate. Even though they previously idiciated that they would see the NorthBeach problems through to the end, we have now been informed that their budget restraints (this year and next) will keep them from visiting this area in Mexico which could have helped them to understand how extensive the real estate fraud is in Rocky Point. I am extremely disappointed and see no other avenue but to let the media continue to inform the public so that future investors will keep their money in the U.S .and STAY OUT of Mexico
ReplyDeleteWOW~ so has someone contacted 20/20? What else can we do? Shall we write letters to them. Let's continue to make "noise" about this. Please post anything further that we can do to support a resolution.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that no one in their right mind would invest in Las palomas with the HOA problems and their management company. This is all such a shame as the area is gorgeous and we all have a strong desire to be a part of it.
The Rocky Point Forum had a "accident" after a big Real Estate player purchased it and 5 plus years of information was destroyed.Thanks to the real estate information on the forum many people were able to dodge the last gasp of the North Beach scammers,learn who the shady players are and exchange information with people with real world experience (good and bad) in Mexican real estate. Now I don't trust anyone.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the Northbeach litigation, I was at the Arizona-Sonora Commission and listened in on the issues there, yet to my surprise I did not hear much about First American Title Insurance and the attorneys that checked everything out. As I read your website, I see that First American Title Insurance (a US company) did the legal Due Diligence and guaranteed all the properties in Northbeach. In consequence, developers moved forwards and purchased these properties, trusting these properties were clean. They began construction and sales. Then the lawsuit hit. and the rest is history. Not only that, but First American Title Insurance also sold all the Title Insurance policies to the developers. Therefore, they are responsable for the properties and defense of the titles of these properties. Why is no pressure placed on them?. I mean, if you want to get down to the source of things, don´t they have any blame?. And they are a US company, how can people blame everything only on the Mexican side? As in the US, when you buy a property and purchase title insurance, the title insurance company does their Due Diligence and guarantees the property is clean by way of the title policy.
ReplyDeleteAlso, as the situation sits now, the litigation in Northbeach is in the judicial courts hands and as in the US, there are rules and procedures to follow. The Government cannot tell the Judicial branch what to do, they can influence up to a point; but they cannot dictate policy. The other matter is that not all the participants in the northbeach litigation have been served yet. And therefore, the litigation cannot proceed properly. I dought very much that the government can magically make this go away easily.
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346&cat=20/20
ReplyDeleteI sumitted a request for them to review..... Let's all reach out and wee if we can make some more noise!!!
Charles,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on the title insurance issue. Accountability has not been pursued against the title companies with enough vigor in my humble opinion.
However, I must disagree with you on the inner workings of the government in Sonora, Mexico. Although you are right that the issue is in the hands of the judicial branch, everything prior to getting to the judiciary and everything after is controlled (with an iron fist) by the EXECUTIVE branch.
Again I agree with you that the executive branch can only go so far in influencing the judicial branch, however they carry a great deal of weight.
Remember the enforcement of the law rests with the executive branch, not with the judicial branch. It does not matter what the judical branch says if the executive branch is in disagreement.
A law is only as good as its enforcement.
All the new rules passed by the state to "regulate" the sales people is fine and dandy for appeasement, however with no teeth behind those regulations they are meanningless.
Until the law is enforced and more importantly RESPECTED by the Sonoran government on the state and municipal level, NOTHING will change!
just my 2 cents worth
Pedro
anybody seen this before?
ReplyDeleteMr. Impartial
http://www.urbanfreak.net/showthread.php?t=3673
Good reading if you are bored.
Pedro
Pedro,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. But I believe that this matter needs to be attacked by many venues. There needs to be a combination of steps to be taken and pressure put in many areas, not just in one area, such as the Sonoran Government alone. Do not get me wrong, I am not defending the Sonoran Government, but it is impossible for the Sonoran Government to get this resolved alone. It is only common sense. I strongly believe that the people involved in the litigation should put the pressure on where it should go, also. If the Title Insurance Company, which is an American company and so are the policies sold, guaranteed the property by a master title policy and also sold individual policies on top of that, then where are they in all of this ? I mean, should they not start there also ? Do you not think that government officials would listen more to a major US Title Insurance Company, with all their staff of attorneys, than to just a handfull of buyers ? Of course they would !! And what about the attorneys that reviewed and gave their legal opinions and did the legal Due Diligence, where do they stand ? Some of them are part of the Legal Advisers to the Arizona-Sonora Commission on the Arizona side, advising the governors on all legal affairs, specially on real estate issues. And still go around writting newspaper articles, such as the one you posted above, approving transactions that involve millions of dollars by buyers who come to Mexico to buy, believing in the professional advise of these attorneys. I remember when this website just started, just a couple of days after, these attorneys printed a newspaper article, where they quote they represented the Arizona-Sonora commission and they gave security to the American buyers, etc. And they are the ones in middle of the whole mess, they are the ones that gave the green light for the transactions to take place in Northbeach, where various buyers and developers purchased large lots (some in cash) believing in ther professional legal advise and in the Title Company.
What is clear and very important, is that everybody should really try to be pacient and keep all venues of comunication open. That is the only way to resolve this. Everybody needs to work together. If comunication breaks down and it turns into one whole big legal mess (worst than now), it is a situation which will go on for years and years, with no winners in sight and only loosers. It already has been going on for over 8 years and it is in worst condition than before. I hope it all works out for the good of Rocky Point and everybody involved. I really do.
The June 16th meeting for Northbeach problems was disappointing to say the least. 30 minutes for each of the litigated developments where people have lost millions continues the hopelessness of all the people who have losses emotionally, monetarily, etc. and most of these people are living out the last best 10 years of their lives. We all know that depression shortens life, therefore, the promise, hopes and dreams of Puerto Penasco has turned into a nightmare.
ReplyDeleteAt this meeting, a group of people who fit into this category, were promised by Carlos Davalos, Mexico---American attorney that he could fix a problem we had. Hopes were high,,,4 weeks later,,,no response after he said he would send us info....It was a smokescreen we suppose.
Then we found out he was a partner with Raul Ofarril and was an attorney for Doug Adams (Playa Dorado Development) who has given us nightmares to resolve our problem. It seemed so simple to correct a fraudulent survey by Northbeach (because our original contracts stated 20 by 30 meters and were recorded by notarios in Puerto Penasco) were changed by Northbeach under the guidance of Raul Ofarril, Tim Gump and who else,,,we don't know..Now the nightmare begins,,,they refuse to help,,,our Mexico dream is trashed because of these people .
When these fraudulent banktrusts were signed after paying our attorney about 240,000 dollars,,,we were told we had hours to come and sign. Many went down with translators (because we belived to a certain degree, we could trust our leaders),,,the translaters were told there was no time for questions,,,,we need to sign because they had to process more trusts.
So we signed, only to find out that Raul Ofarril and Tim Gump knew of the incorrect survey in which we lost property that walls, structures, homes were built on (in which the original contracts from the Grijalves gave us, years before NorthBeach showed up), decided not to correct it. We never bought from Northbeach, they shouldn't have any control over us. (Unless you signed an untranslated banktrust).
Playa Dorada used to be a vibrant, positive, community active beach, now we have banktrusts with developers conditions, "annexos", restrictions, full of friends, great relations with Mexico people...Now we have Northbeach come in and overlap our property to claim control over the people who didn't even buy from them. We suppose, this is the price of greed. Our point is,,,dont' trust anyone,,,translate what you sign, before you sign,,,we believed in the people who was representing us.
They don't even apologize,,,,,We have footprints on our faces.
Lastly, can you afford the HOA dues, maintenance fees, etc. that are in your conditions, requirements, annexos, etc. in your trust that you weren't allowed to translate.? Some developments are as high as $850.00 a "month". Property taxes have gone up 400% in one year. This doesn't include banktrust maintenance fees which vary from $350 to $550 a year. We offered a translator,,,,Our leaders turned the offer down. Now that's something you can hang your sombrero on. If this situation doesn't change,,,Puerto Penasco will have no believers. Can we believe that the Arizona, Sonoran Comission will help,,,nothing yet, but we believe they are trying.
What amazes me more than anything abut the Peñasco fiasco, is the complete lack of accountability for Raul O’Farrill in the Arizona courts. I can understand this on the Mexican side of the border but here in USA???
ReplyDeleteWhat gives?
Pedro
Because there have been so many individuals "bilked" on investments in Mexico and particularly Puerto Penasco, does anyone have information regarding a knowledgeable NAFTA Attorney that would be interested in national media exposure?
ReplyDeleteThe Mexican officials that indicated they would find a solution to the problem have done absolutely nothing. We realize that national media is our only hope of resolution.
The Rocky Point real estate community is now blaming the negative media exposure, high gas prices and the US economy for lack of tourists and real estate activity.
ReplyDeleteWhen are they ever going to admit that THEY ignored the on going real estate fraud that was happening for 8 years at NorthBeach and continue (along with the Rocky Point Times) to cover up these very issues, not only at NorthBeach but at other major developments?
Hopefully Puerto Penasco will (as another blog stated) return to the "sleepy little fishing village" it once was and investors figure out their money is better off kept north of the border!
Jerry, to comment on your blog of July 2nd. It wouldn't take much paper to list all the reputable real estate sales persons in Puerto Penasco.
ReplyDeleteYou are wise ----do not trust any of them!
I wouldn't put 10 cents of my money into Penasco real estate -- in fact, I'm even thinking about cutting back my visits, just in protest of these shennanigans.
ReplyDeleteI will not question or second-guess any of the comments made by several people on this blog. My respect and consideration goes to all of them. All I will say is this: I, acting as a Mexican attorney based in Hermsoillo, represented a married couple from Tucson, Arizona, who acquired several real properties in Puerto Peñasco in the year 2000. A few years later, they sold them and made very good money. No problems whatsoever. Key of their success? Simple: I personally conducted a deep, detailed title search each time (much more than getting from the Public Registry of Property a "Free-from-liens certificate", and more than merely verifying the existence of an "uninterrupted chain of title"), looking for issues and flaws that are often beyond the surface and which go unnoticed by those who lack the knowledge and expertise to know what to really look for. Also, the way we went about the closings was considered "unusual" or "excessively careful" by local standards in PP. Maybe so, but, as I said my clients went in, and later came out, absolutely clean and richer. In the process of doing title searches, we of course rejected several properties being offered to my clients by the local realtors, because of the issues, flaws and risks that I detected. My clients, of course, always relied on my advice. Best to all of you.
ReplyDeleteI have a question about the North Beach developers: What is the relationship of Las Palomas and Bella Sirena to North Beach?
ReplyDeleteI ask this because the state of Sonora's proposal mentions that North Beach investors can apply 1/2 of their (lost) deposits to Las Palomas and Bellas Sirena.
On a related note, what kind of financial trouble is the Las Palomas development having?
Regards,
Nick
It is my understanding that they proposal is empty~ Bella Sireina is NOT particiapting and is the sister property of Rivera Real. And Las Palomas~ they have had more contracts canceled than inked lately! Their HOA's fees are completely inflated and property value is declining BIGTIME there. We were going to buy last year at this time of year there and we could get the same property for almost 80K cheaper this year. EVERYONE WANTS TO SELL to owns there
ReplyDeleteBasically what was given at the meeting was NADA!!
Joaquín Cabrera, Esq.
ReplyDeleteLic. Cabrera, I am glad you know how to conduct in depth searches of title, and you are pretty detailed in your legal work as well however, you failed to mention what happens when the Sonoran system of government REFUSES to enforce their laws?
What good is all of the hard work you put into protecting your clients prior to the sale, what happens after the sale when you hit a brick wall as you try to protect your clients interests when criminals steal their land. When the executive branch interferes with enforcement of the laws? When the judicial branch at the local levels is influenced by outside sources ad don’t apply the law as they are written?
Lets not make out all the people that have horror stories to tell about real estate investments negligent for not exercising due diligence. All Mexican lawyers may not think like you with efficacy and fudiciary being a right and not a privilege. The client should be first and not the social network utilized to get things done (behind the scenes jurisprudence) as is commonly practiced in all of Mexico and not just Sonora.
I am curious what your public opinion is of Mr. Raul O’Farril, Esq. might be? I don’t know the man personally, nor have I had any dealings with him, but from the overwhelming negative comments about his practices including omissions, I would be extremely judgmental about his integrity and character! How that man sleeps at night is beyond my feeble comprehension!
I welcome you to comment on my personal situation; currently making it’s way through the Sonoran courts as slow as molasses in an artic winter! But it’s moving. If you don’t have enough information to render an informed opinion from what I have posted here, then you are welcomed to read my blog at www.elgolfonews.com or at www.noticiaselgolfo.com (Spanish version just not as detailed). I can assure you that extensive due diligence was practiced in my situation in regards to the legal issues, the “social issues” are another matter all together. Ownership is not at issue in El Golfo. You can post your comments here and or on my site. If you find any of my assertions to be false or distorted to my favor and not representative of the true picture, then by all means tell me so that I can change its presentation. Remember I am not a lawyer nor am I a native Spanish speaker/reader; I am just a Gringo that tried to purchase the American Dream SOUTH of the BORDER!
Pedro
Joaquin Cabrera,Esq
ReplyDeleteI have read your blog about the successful investors that you represented from Tucson. I am sure their success was at someone else's expense because there are not many successful real estate ventures in Puerto Penasco.
The major problem is corruption within the government at the local, state and federal levels and real estate agents that try to cover it up. When the Sonoran Government officials came to Phoenix for (2) meetings, they were full of promises but have disappeared back into the system and not even the Arizona Dept of Real Estate has heard from them since the last meeting (June 19th)
The U S Media has been our only hope for any type of relief in this real estate fiasco in Puerto Penasco. We have contacted newspaper reporters both in Hermosillo and Mexico City with no response.
What do you recommend we do to get the Mexican media involved to inform the public that Mexico is going to lose millions if not billions of dollars because American people are now aware of the corruption and Mexico's unwillingness to correct it?
In need of advise, my husband and I are about to buy a 2bed condo in Las Palomas Phase 1 resales. We have put 5k in escrow but have not signed the offer or the escrow letter. So I think we are still in time to pull out. The deal on the condo is very good. The problem I am having is that I read all of this and I cannot find the connection to where Las Palomas is involved in any fraud other than raising HOA fees. Please know some sense into me if I am incorrect.
ReplyDeletesonalva
ReplyDeleteTake the money back as run as fast as you can away from Sonora Real Estate. I do mean as fast as you can! I just lost my appeal to get my land back that was stolen from us ( forceibly kicked off) rus as fast as you can! And if you can't get your money back, run as fast as you can and forget the 5K! I have 250K invested just in the fight alone to get our land back! And we have clean legal TITLE!
Pedro
There is no safe investment in Mexican real estate. Although a resale in Las Palomas may seem like a good idea today, it is not wise to invest a single cent in Sonora real estate. And here are the reasons why: If one of the relatives of the original owners of Sandy Beach (which is where Las Palomas is located) decides to crawl out of the woodwork and claim that the alleged owners never had the authority to sell the property to Las Palomas, your condo will be tied up in the Mexican courts for years and years --as evidenced by what has happened in North Beach and is happening in Baja. As long as the legal situation in North Beach remains unresolved, your real estate investment value will go down dramatically. Ask yourself why you’re getting such a great deal today. The litigation involving North Beach is in its third year and is affecting not only Las Palomas but ALL of Puerto Penasco. Whatever legal protection you think you might have using Mexican lawyers, banks, real estate agents, notarios, courts, etc., it’s a delusion! They are all controlled by a corrupt Sonora government, who will NEVER protect you (an American) or your investment. Just ask North Beach investors who have begged and pleaded with the Mexican government for help -- to no avail. (And by the way, don't count on any US agencies to help you either). Finally, carefully re-read post #16 (SORRY INVESTOR) in this blog; then as quickly as possible, get your money back! A bad real estate investment in the US is far better than a good real estate investment in Mexico.
ReplyDeleteSonalva
ReplyDeleteThings are so bad in Sonora real Estate that I have put up our land for sale. Remeber run as fast as you can! There are NO laws that will protect your investment when you need it!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190242408455&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=009
Pedro
Sonalva,
ReplyDeleteThis web site was designed and continues to inform the public about the risks of investing in Mexican Real Estate. These are real life experiences of actual investors that have been bilked out of hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate investments throughout Mexico. Do you actually think you can afford to pay $850.00 a month in HOA fees plus up to $500.00 a year for renewal of your Bank Trusts, plus taxes, plus utilities? Don't fool yourself ---in fact, good luck getting your deposit back!!
Why don't you check and see how many people you can find who are in the same position as you and asking for their deposit back from Las Palomas. PLEASE do not end up being another person who will be sorry they invested in Mexico!! Do not give Mexico another dime ---- Keep your money in the U.S.
OFF TOPIC: Saw a video of Tulum, MX. In My opinion the most beautiful beach on Earth. I have not made it back but the video reminded me what a beach is. It is a moment in time and ever changing.
ReplyDeleteI have seen many beaches disappear and become sand. Tulum is shocking . I still remember it as it was not as it is.
Rocky Point has massive tides and on dunes so expect changes.
The Mayan Palace will be miles from the beach in 2018. I saw posted signs that it is illegal to take sea shells from the beach shows their ignorance. Management sees changes but does not realize what it is.
Reality is sand is being deposited on top of the shells and all you see is sand, dunes, management thinks tourists are "stealing" them. Ten years ago you could find 10,000 of 6 inch "dollars" on 100 foot strips. Today they are probably 100 feet deep. The shells are fossils and do not move but get buried.
Dollars are skeleton dead starfish, this area is a depository of whales, (whale bones) and billions of shells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJ8C2qw5FM
Shocking video of the beach for the Mayan Royalty, Tulum Mexico.
At this writing, El Dorado Estates or The Terraces is stagnating very nicely.
ReplyDeleteEvery now and then they sneak in and work on their septic system, which by the way, the City of Penasco oredered them to stop 3 months ago. They say in a newsletter to some of the Playa Dorada residents who complained about the legality of the septic system, "that it is a holding system and will pumped to the North Beach Sewage treatment facility". If anyone who reads this knows where this imaginary Sewage Facility is please post the location on this blog. The truth is, it doesn't exist. Only in the minds of the chosen few.
UPDATE on Grijalva vs. North Beach!
Most know that the attempt by some to have the trial moved to Tijuana
has failed. A federal Judge ruled that the company was formed in the State of Sonora, the geographical location of the property is in the State of Sonora so there is no legal basis for moving the trial to Tijuana, it will be in PTO. Penasco. North Beach and the developers have not won one segment of this case in 3 years. What does that tell you? The primary players have fled to Spain with the cash and will never return to the U.S. or Mexico for the trial.
In the meantime anybody who purchased or thought they purchased property from the "Playa Dorada Investment company", Barlovento Estates S. De R.L. or El Dorado Estates, you need to read your contract carefully. These people had no legal rights to the property until December 19th, 2006. That is when they acquired rights to the property as the 2ND Beneificiary of a Trust held at Scotia Bank. Interesting fact, The Grijalvas filed their lawsuit in 2005. Some of these companies do not legally exist.
These professional Developers cannot issue you a title or Bank trust to legalize your property! Reguardless of what they tell you, it is not due to confusion on the part of the City of Penasco or the State of Sonora. It is due to the fact that the Federal Court has placed a lien on the property, preventing the city and the state from issuing any licenses, permits or subdivision plans or allowing any changes to be made to this property. Many attempts have been made to get this lien removed but to no avail. The lien is here to stay.
WE ARE HEARING THAT THE CONDO PROJECT LA PERLA HAS FAILED AND A NUMBER OF FOLKS WHO PAID LARGE DEPOSITS FOR UNITS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETED A YEAR AGO HAVE LOST THEIR MONEY. IS THIS CORRECT?
ReplyDeleteFor all of you potential investors of Sonora real estate; you have been warned (informed). If you are still contemplating investing in Sonora Mexico then you have only yourself to blame. The Sonoran Government will not protect you, the American Government will not protect you and for our neighbors north of us, the Canadian Government will not protect you. NOBODY will protect you and if you try to protect yourself, you will more than likely be the one punished and invited to stay in one of the five star Mexican prisons.
ReplyDeletethe fight continues~!
Pedro
Like it or not, here it is!
ReplyDeleteWe are having a good time venting about ourselves making BAD decisions. The truth of the matter is: that without us making bad decisions none of this would be happening. IF INTERNATIONAL BUYER'S would do business like we know how to do it, then it would stop the casino endeavor of these developers to do business like they have been doing business. We are allowing them to get away with it, and so is the Mexican Federal Government and the Sonorqan State Government. This is very simple!
1. Put a small refundable deposit in an imaginary development, on the house or condo of your choice.
2. When the developer has finished the complex or unit that you have a deposit on, and he can deliver to you a llegal ownership document, he then gets the money for the unit. Not up front, but after the unit is finished!
3. You need to make sure that these developments are approved by the State of Sonora, before you put any money down on them. NO PRIVATE CONTRACTS. IF YOU ENTER INTO THIS TYPE OF AGREEMENT YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE AND GIVING THE OTHER PARTY NOTHING LESS THAN A LICENSE TO STEAL YOUR MONEY!
4. Without us they are out of business, so let it be us that are the ones calling the shots! No Title, No dinero. Comprende?
There are many, not all, but mostly all of the developers of the various projects who don't have much money invested in the developments that they are trying to do. They are cheating the City, the State and the buying public by short cutting the SUBDIVISION LAWS of the State of Sonora. (This is where then State of Sonora is at fault, by not enforcing laws that already exist.) If the developers were forced to follow the protocal that exists, they could not do it without investing their own money in the project and the project would be a lot less likely to fail if this were the case.
So, let's get SMART and not buy anything until it is finished, they have permits and licenses from the State of Sonora and it is a varifiable approved project. This will stop the CRAP people. If they are scam artists they will not spend the amount of money that it takes to get that far along into the project to be able to finally get a license to sell. Don't listen to the hype of the prices are going to go up and that there are only a few units left and now is the time to buy. It's B.S. There are so many units for sale in Pto Penasco, they can't give them away. they are hurting for business. Let's not do business their way anymore. Do business the way you know how! When something you want to buy is finished and you can have an ownership document delivered to you when you pay for it, it is probably a good deal. When they want 60%-70% of the money upfront and the complex is not even under construction, it is most likely as we all know by now, NOT A GOOD DEAL.
Scoop
ReplyDeleteHow do you explain what is happening to the investors of Sonoran real esate that have CLEAN LEGAL TITLE and get ZERO relief from the judicial system??? In America we have judicial recourse. Sure fraud exists in Amercia, but not systematic fraud such as the case on display in Rocky Point and El Golfo. We must assume our share of the fault becasue I don't believe any of us had a gun pointed at our heads as we signed the purchase agreements.
Look beyond what the investor must do. Look at what Mexico is NOT doing; enforcing their own laws! It doesn't matter how much homework or due diligence the American investor excercises prior to, during and after a purchase, when the system is "broken, inept, inefficient, corrupt" or whatever term one wishes to use to describe this phenomena, the fact remains you are on your own when it comes to trying to obtain "justice" in Sonora, Mexico. After everything that has been posted on this site, my site and the boycott Baja site the only thing can be said is that one has to be brave to invest in Mexico! Have you heard of being doomed the minute your eye catches that glimmering wave on the Mexican sunset?
the fight continues
Pedro
I believe legal accountability seems to be elusive in Sonora.
ReplyDeletePedro,
ReplyDeleteYou know the answer to that as well as anyone. Corruption and payoff's are the answer to that. In the State of sonora, It's the rule rather than the exception. This happens in the U.S. as well but we don't want to admit it. The laws exist in Mexico, the problem is you have to pay to get the law enforced or some else pays to not have the law enforced. If no one pays, nothing happens, the problem just simply does not exist!
What i was trying to say is that by doing business in the correct manner we will take away money from the State of Sonora, which eventually will cause them to enforce their own laws, or go without the Money. It's a relatively save bet that the legit developers will put up their own money to get these projects to the point where they can apply for a license to sell. The scam artists will not because they want to use everyone else's money to get rich quick without any investment of their own. Thanks for your response as this is what this website is all about. Debate and education for all those who have invested and those that are considering investing in Mexico. I will agree with you that at this point in time, given the Sonoran Government's actions or lack of responsible action,it is most likely not a good time to invest in Mexico.
Scoop,
ReplyDeleteTouché!
pedro
Greg P, regarding your 9/21 comment about La Perla, yes that is true. My contract required that the project be finished by the end of January 2009 and EXPLICITLY STATED that all monies were to be refunded if the project was not completed.
ReplyDeleteI sent them a registered letter demanding my deposit, since the contract would clearly be violated and not be done by this time. Their response was a BS letter that essentially stated that "poor economic conditions" constituted an unforeseen circumstance, and Mexican Law allowed them to ignore the completion/refund date in the contract.
THE "DEVELOPERS" OF THE LA PERLA PROJECT (AKA PATRICK CLIFTON / CLIFTON MERIDIAN COMPANIES IN SCOTTSDALE, AZ) HAVE NO INTENTION OF RETURNING A DIME OF ANY INVESTOR'S HARD-EARNED MONEY. DO NOT DO ANY BUSINESS WITH THESE PEOPLE IN THE U.S. OR MEXICO, OR ANYWHERE ELSE. YOU CAN SEE THEIR COMPANY INFORMATION ON WWW.CLIFTONMERIDIAN.COM. PASS THE WORD, DO NOT DO BUSINESS, PROTEST - DO WHATEVER YOU CAN.
I would like to take this opportunity to share the good news that has come out of the Criminal Courthouse of San Luis Rio Colorado, Sonora Mexico. Many of you have been following our case dealing with our property in El Golfo de Santa Clara, Sonora. It was stolen, and now, has been returned (well only about 75% of the parcel) because the justice finally showed its head!!!
ReplyDeleteWe are waiting for the opposition previously known as the criminals, to decide if they are going to appeal the judge’s decision to return our land to us. I have not posted the ruling on my blog, because the "opposition" lawyer has not been officially served with the ruling.
It has been an extremely long and difficult endeavor trying to recoup our land. Not only has it (the fight) decimated my life savings and taken me away from my kids it almost cost me my sanity!
It is almost over. We have a new hearing at the Agrarian court on Dec 4, we had previously won there. We are also waiting for the ruling on the guilt or innocence of the criminals and the jail time if any; and I almost forgot, how much of the $250K+ I have spent trying to get our land back from these hoodlums!
I share this information with you today, not as a bragging point for our personal gain but as a triumph for the justice system and rule of law in the State of Sonora Mexico.
I know many of you are still embattled with the Sonora legal system; it is my sincere wishes to offer you HOPE and moral support, as you too seek justice in Sonora Mexico!
The fight continues!
Pedro
Hi, im lookgin for someone who had bought a propierty on rocky point, specially in sandy beach or near, for investment but now is traying to sale it... im a journalist and im working a story about how the prices went down this year.
ReplyDeletePlease write to sandraromandia@gmail.com, thank you.
I just recently found this website and for the first time in many years, I don't feel alone in my anger and frustration. I, too, was one of the early investors in Las Gardenias. I fought for a few years on my own but after attorney fees and getting nowhere, I eventually gave up. The whole deal left a bad taste in my mouth for Rocky Point, so I moved onto places a little further south. My fiance and I now vacation in Mazatlan which is an easy two day drive south. But I never gave up my dream of owning in Mexico. You would think I would have learned my lesson in Rocky Point, but no . . . the dream was too vivid and the sales people too good. We bought a fractional ownership on a house in Mazatlan, and two years later, no deed, no title . . .it's pretty much like North Beach all over again, except in this case, the houses did get built. When we were down there last month trying to resolve the ownership papers, they played the same game that the officials from Sonoran did for North Beach. In other words, we were offered a credit towards the purchase of a new (still under contruction) project that was a whole lot more money. So it's like a memo went out to everyone in Mexico dealing with selling real estate to Americans: THOSE AMERICANS ARE SO STUPID - WE FRAUDED THEM ONCE, SO LET'S FRAUD THEM AGAIN AND MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY! My words to anyone and everyone who is even the most remotely thinking of buying in Mexico - DON'T EVEN CONSIDER BUYING ANYWHERE IN THAT COUNTRY UNLESS YOU PLAN ON JUST THROWING YOUR MONEY AWAY!
ReplyDeleteHi all!
ReplyDeleteAs a fresh rockypointexposed.com user i only wanted to say hi to everyone else who uses this forum B-)
Excellent web pages Successes and prosperity to you!
ReplyDeleteIvermo,
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your experience with others so they don't get "ripped off" like you and hundreds of others who have tried to invest in Mexican real estate.
Did you know the Sonoran government officials are no longer responding to emails and the Arizona Department of Real Estate has not heard from them in weeks?
In my opinion, Mexico could care less how many Americans have been frauded. After all, the US government keeps supporting them by allowing businesses to relocate to Mexico. Puerto Penasco is in the free zone and American should be protected under the NAFTA Trade Agreement ---- try to find just one government official that cares or will help!
Arizona governor Napolitano wined and dined with Sonoran government officials and now she will more than likely be the new head of Homeland Security. Isn't that a comforting feeling?
Chris
Reality Hits Rocky Point!
ReplyDeleteAs predicted by the "real" people with "real" life experiences who have told their stories on this web site, "Reality Has Hit Rocky Point"
If you think times are tough in the US, try surviving in a place where the drug cartels are bigger and more powerful than law enforcement or the military!
It is not safe to be in many areas of northern Mexico. Mexican government planes constantly patrol the beaches on the Sea of Cortez in an effort to stop drug traffic; however, they are loosing the battle and are looking to the US for help.
Should Americans help Mexico when Mexico is not willing to help the Americans who have lost millions of dollars in real estate ventures in Mexico? Of course not.
Rocky Point has now lost approx 1/3 of its population because construction workers have moved south to seek employment. All major construction projects except (1) have shut down. The real esate community who used deceptive measures to lure American investors to "Margaritaville" have left Rocky Point to find work in the US. Many have limited education and will struggle to survive in hard times. In my opinion, the realors in Penasco and The Rocky Point Times contributed to the real esate demise because of greed and unwillingness to print the truth. It could be years before the real estate reaches a level it once experienced.The many re-sales offer great buys but take a look beyond the initial investment.
It takes big money to maintain the large developments. Association fees keep rising in order for the developments to survive but some investors are not willing to pay the increased fees (or can't afford the fees). Insurance costs, bank trust fees and utilites go on forever.
One development in Playa Encanto was asked to pay over $17,000.00 (US) per homeownerr to connect to permanent electrical power! (Another Mexican "Good Deal")
Before you get lured to Mexico, read the blogs on this site and realize how lucky you are that you have been warned by people that weren't so fortunate.
In a country where the wealthy become richer, the poor struggle to survive, and corruption runs rampid at the local, state and federal levels---- remember it is Mexico and will never change!
When you think of investments, please invest in the United States. Buy from US companies and vacation in the US. The dollars you spend will stay in the US and may save your job and livelyhood.
Do NOT invest in Mexico, you will lose your money and neither the US or Mexican Governments will step in to help!
It is apparent that Rocky Point is rapidly turning back into the "tiny little fishing village" it once was.
Patti
I have been wating 3 months on statements from my rental company that has yet to shown up. I am affraid Rocky Point Reservations is going bankrupt.
ReplyDeleteToday I heard from my HOA board that the owner was in the meeting crying with crocidial tears about how she has gone broke and can't pay the owner's their money she owes them.
Betty Majors has always been rude and mean to me and my family, so I say good riddens. When I tried to rent it myself for a long term she forced me into paying her a commission yet refused to collect the money or do any of the processing.
I know she will blacklist me when she figures out who from what I am writting but I am so angry right now I don't even care.
Everyone seems to be accounting for their horror stories in investing here in RP. I have a story too, but it is a very successful one. When we purchased our beach front property in Playa Dorada, everything went fine. But it went well because, we as investors researched everything we needed to know and surrounded ourselves with one of the very few extremely knowledgeable realtors and part time resident there. He was able to walk us through the entire process, and advised 100% of the way, never to provide cash on any investment, which we didn't. So, although I feel bad for those who have lost lots of cash, even in the US, you wouldn't buy property with cash without having the title in hand would you? So, why people did business deals with cash, in advance of a project being done, is beyond me. We have now owned our home on the beach for a couple years now, with no issues whatsoever. So the moral of the story would be, don't deal with cash with an investment of any kind until you have the appropriate documents in hand.
ReplyDeleteI looking for some feedback from any investor with Riveria Real on North Beach~ what is the status of development? What is the developer telling you? Are there a group of investors that are talking? anytimeline present?
ReplyDeleteThanks so much!
Sammy ---
ReplyDeleteIf you think your purchase in Playa Dorada is so wonderful, maybe you should talk with some of your neighbors who have owned for over 20 years and now have fraudulent Bank Trusts. These people did their due diligence and thought for 20 years their property was secure. I would like to know the name of your wonderful real estate agent --- is he the one who caused the problems for other owners in Dorado? The crime and corruption that is so prevelant in Rocky Point & Mexico will "get you" in time. By the way, what is your pile of sand in Playa Dorado worth today?
To Leslie-
ReplyDeleteA little irritated are you? A little miffed at yourself because someone's Mexico deal worked out? Why would talking to people who have owned their lots/homes in Playa Dorado be anything I need to do? We do have friends who bought their lot 12 years ago, guess what, everything is fine with them too, they own it, and enjoy their home every month. Again, my purchase is wonderful because I used common sense, and didn't throw cash at a developer before I saw my title. I can assure you my real estate agent IS NOT the one who caused issues for others. He is the realtor people know about and use due to his integrity and reputation. As for what my pile of sand is worth, there are empty lots in Playa Dorado up for sale for 699k right now. We made a killing. We will never be able to buy beachfront for what we bought ours for, we are sitting on a Gold mine. Our lot has more then tripled, and we have one of the nicest homes on the beach now. Crime and Corruption is only "prevelent" if you don't do your due diligence. Leslie, Sounds like it is time for you to take responsibility for your own actions rather then blaming others, like realtors or corruption. -Buyer Beware.
Anyone who 'did their due diligence' in Playa Dorado up to 20 years ago would have known that trusts were not available at that time but 'bought' anyway by way of a bill of sale or lease agreement in hopes of aquiring a trust at a later date. At least one sector in Playa Dorado did receive trusts in spite of what you have heard and is much farther ahead than they were when they first got involved. Consequently they are in better shape than in other sectors in Playa Dorado and other stalled developments around Puerto Penasco.
ReplyDeleteSammy,
ReplyDeleteI don't read the blog very often but i did and i don't quite buy your scenerio. First, if you didn't get a bank trust by the year 2005, you are making this story up! Second, after 2005 there were liens in place making it virtually impossible for the developers to issue a bank trust. Third, if your realtor is so honest and reliable, did he disclose to you that the property was in litigation, had liens accessed to it and title insurance could not be purchased on the property? The developer has Title insurance thru Stewart Title, this is true. There are 13 exceptions on that policy! No bank will lend money on a property that has even just one exception in the title policy. So, are you financing the property thru a Bank?
My guess is that you have nothing more than a private contract with the developer. That the developer is carrying the note with a promise to convert the contract to a bank trust, when and if he is able to do so. I am also curious about a bank lending money on a property that has no infrastructure or utilities to it. If you really do have a home in Playa Dorada. I hope you are enjoying the benefits of the $15,000.00 you paid for infrastructure. There is none! No sewer treatment facility, no water treatment facility, no electricity and no streets paved with Gold. You got all this from a realtor you trust? You story sounds like a BIG FRESH PILE of BULL. One other thing. Can you go into Scotia Bank and pay your Trust maintenence fee's yourself? Do they have a record of your Trust and your subdivded lot number? Or do you pay your trust maintenece fee to the treasurer of the developer's HOA and that person makes the payment for you? Now that sure is a convienece! NOT.
Sammy
ReplyDeleteThe right answer is to use due diligence when investing in Sonora, Mexico? You must laugh at your own jokes as well!
There is ABSOLUTELY NO AMOUNT of due diligence that can be exercised in Sonora Mexico that will protect you from incompetence, fraud and corruption! You might not have have gotten the flu yet (legal, real estate or title problems), but you will; and when that day comes you regret ridiculing all these people that come to share their stories on this blog.
Read this article; our friend Vucovich emerges again! (You might remember him from the meetings in Phoenix and the offer made to the people that got screwed in Rocky Point. There is more to this story than what was written. Big news will come out of El Golfo soon!
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/04/09/20090409elgolfo.html
the fight continues
Pedro
I am extremely impressed with the valuble information this web site provides. Had I had this information in 2000, I certainly would not have invested any money in Mexico. After 9 years I have no title, no infrastructure or any hope of resolving these issues ----and yes, Sammy I did hire the services of an international legal firm to oversee my original purchase contract.(of course you are probably more versed on Mexican real estate than they would be) Does Sammy actually know that the very property she talks about was owned by the same individuals that have been in court battles regarding NorthBeach for 9 years? The blog by the "Playa Dorado Resident" is indicative of people that have much more knowledge of the situation than Sammy ever will. Sammy, do you actually believe that with property values plummeting in the United States, your property value is increasing in Mexico? Or did you mean that your property is now worth 699 pesos? Dream on
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh, you people responding to my comments are so incredibly under-educated, negative and just plain wrong. I have a title in my HAND! I own the land, the house, everything! Playa Dorada beach IS NOT UNDER ANY LITIGATION! I did not, or never have had any "deal" with a developer. The builder we hired, who came highly recommended as many people use him, simply built my house on my land, and off he goes as we owe him nothing at this point, nor will we have any ties to him down the road. North Beach is the area with existing litigation, not Playa Dorada...do your homework. As for infrastructure, again, you people are highly misguided as yes, we do have infrastructure. We have roads, security, complete independent solar (for those of you that don't know anything about solar, that means you can be totally independent and don't need "utilities"). I am thinking the readers here don't understand how solar works. We also have our own septic system, so again, why do we need "services" from the city? Please advise me because we need nothing from the city, we are totally self sufficient. Also, with the Mayan Palace plans, the properties are going to sky rocket with their nearby marina, air port and future plans. For those of you that just talk about Playa Dorada and haven't been there lately, you can obviously see the building as it has increased very recently.
ReplyDeleteAs for property values in the US, again, do your homework, higher end properties are holding their value, we know, we have one and just got appraised for over 1 million, 3 times what we paid for it.
As for the fee of 15k for infrastructure, that is purely an optional fee one can pay in the future to have utilities come to your property. We don't need this, and we never paid it. Again, do your homework. I am part of the HOA and am much more knoweldeable about ALL of the topics that the so-called "investors" in this blog have written about. To be an investor, you should have basic understanding of HOW to invest. That includes doing your homework, meeting the right people and ensuring you know the laws of the area you are buying in. Sounds like the negative posts on this blog had none of this, they just threw the dice and hoped it all worked. I guess that is why I owe 8 homes in the US, and a beach front home in Rocky Point and they don't.
All of my RP neighbors, YES ALL, are completely satisfied with their purchases, recent and a while ago, I know no one who lost their house, was de-frauded or any other form of corruption. They all own titles, own the land, the house etc. So, I think it is just sour grapes on the part of a few investors that would like to call themselves investors, but fail miserably at that job.
And to clarify again, we bought the land directly FROM THE OWNER! We know this individual very well, we did not buy through a developer, or any of that mess that most of you people fell into. We went straight to the source, made a sound decision, have title in hand-there are no liens. Need I say more!
ReplyDeleteLA PERLA DEL MAR - Please email me by April 30th if you are, or know of any investors in the La Perla del Mar project. dbays@cox.net.
ReplyDeleteThanks
David
I would like to hear from those who had Mexican employees like the housekeeper (her name isn't Maria, is it?) who tried to take the property. Our caretaker of 20+ years, Francisco Hernandez Mandjuano, along with his employees and so-called "family", has taken over our house in Las Conchas last month, claiming ownership. He was our employee for all that time, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteWe have a trust, but the police threw us out of our house last month instead of him. He had "papers" but not one of the police or judiciary or the neighborhood Norte Americanos that reviewed them have the legal knowledge to interpret them properly. The police even refused to look at our trust. Was Francisco right all these years when he told us he "owns" the police in Penasco and has many friends like the current Mayor in high places that will be on his side no matter what? What's even sadder is that some of our Norte Americano neighbors have been assisting him in his attempts to steal our property. Some have signed false documents, and one simply pretend to be our friend while he "counseled" us to wait...we waited too long to head this part off, which was apparently the plan all along. Well, we are getting a better picture of the players now.
Francisco has all sorts of stories, depending on who his audience is at the time. Sometimes, the poor man has no family, no support system, then he can qualify for donations from the Larry Large Foundation for his kidney replacement (see the Larry Large Foundation website for his sob story, you will also see how we used to believe in him...we have asked the Foundation to remove our statement; they refuse}. Consider this writing our emphatic statement that we are no longer affiliated in any manner with Sr. Hernandez since he has shown his true intentions and character); then the next person he talks to, he is a "family" man who is just trying to take care of his children. So many personalities for so many situations...must get tiring.
Then for the unassuming older women who are his main prey, he tells them sad stories about what a great man he is because he takes care of people abandoned by their own children.
If this man or anyone he is associated with ever says to you "Don't worry, mister, I'll take care of it", you can be certain that he will take care of it... for his benefit. Our mother thought she could trust him for 20 years and now it is evident he has spent that time plotting and manipulating our family for his benefit.
First off you can’t own TITLE to land for x amount of miles off the beach. So, you must have a bank trust I take it? Your land and house would be in the bank trust. Like through HSBC or others.
ReplyDeleteComment only to clarify.
Unless maybe you are a Mexican National?
PART TWO
ReplyDeleteTHE DEVELOPERS CANNOT DO ANYTHING ON THEIR OWN, BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANY THREATENS TO CANCEL THEIR POLICY IF THEY INTERVENE IN THE LITIGATION. IT IS WRITTEN IN THEIR INSURANCE POLICY AND THEY HAVE BEEN WARNED BY FIRST AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY OFFICIALS.
THEREFORE, WE ARE ALL IN A BIND AND OUR MONEY IS BEING LOST BECAUSE OF A GREEDY INSURANCE COMPANY WHO DID NOT DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE CORRECTLY, THINKING THEY WOULD SELL ALL THOSE INSURANCE POLICIES TO DEVELOPERS AND BUYERS AND MAKE ALL THAT MONEY. THEY WENT INTO BED WITH THE MARTINS FROM NORTHBEACH AND COUNTED ON, THAT WE AMERICANS WOULD TRUST AND BUY MUCH EASIER A PIECE OF PROPERTY, IF IT WAS BACKED-UP BY AN AMERICAN INSURANCE POLICY FROM AN AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY. THEY WERE IRRESPONSABLE IN NOT DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE, HIRING THE SAME ATTORNEY RAUL O´FARILL, WHOM WORKED FOR THE MARTINS AND IS A PARTNER IN GILA TOWERS, ONE OF THE AFFECTED DEVELOPMENTS. HE IS ALSO THE ATTORNEY THAT SCREWED UP THE LAND TITLES FOR THE FIRST GROUP OF BUYERS IN PLAYA DORADA, IN THE FIRST PHASE OF NORTHBEACH. AND IS CURRENTLY MANAGING THE PLAYA DORADA RESIDENTIAL AREA, WHICH HAS HAD SO MANY PROBLEMS AND ACCUSATIONS OF WRONG DOING. HOW CAN THIS PERSON BE INVOLVED IN ALL ASPECTS OF THESE DEALS WITHOUT A CONFLICT OF INTERESTED? WHAT IS HIS REAL INTEREST AND WHO DOES HE REALLY REPRESENT?
NOW, FIRST AMERICAN TITLE INSURANCE COMPANY IS OBSTRUCTING AN END TO THIS ENTIRE ORDEAL, BY NOT NEGOTIATING OR MOVING FORWARDS. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY CANNOT EVEN SERVE THE MAIN PARTY, THE MARTINS IN OVER 3 YEARS? THIS LITIGATION HAS NOT EVEN BEGUN YET.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE FROM FIRST AMERICAN TITLE INSURANCE COMPANY THAT SOLD THE TITLE POLICIES AND ARE IN CHARGE OF THE ONGOING LITIGATION OF NORTHBEACH:
TURALU BRADY MURDOCK
PRESIDENT OF LATIN DIVISION:
E-MAIL: tmurdock@firstam.com
PHONE: (954) 839 - 2992
JOSE MAURICIO BELLO
INTERNATIONAL CLAIMS COUNSEL
E-MAIL: mabello@firstam.com
PHONE: (954) 839 – 2992
I THINK WE NEED TO GET TO THE FOUNDATION OF THE PROBLEM AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO THE PEOPLE WHO CONTROL THE LITIGATION AND CAN END IT, IF THEY DESIRED TO DO SO. AND FRANKLY, THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THE MEANS OF ATTRACTION FOR PEOPLE TO BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT WAS NOT CLEAN.
VIOLENCE HITS ROCKY POINT
ReplyDeleteFor those two or three people who have positive blogs on this site, you are invited to visit the following web page:
http://www.numerounoonline.com/nota.php?id=4574
Puerto Penasco is now experiencing the violence that has been so prevelant throughout Mexico.
Friday, April 24, 2009, Local market robbed at gunpoint. Thieves got away with $120,000.00 pesos
Saturday, April 25, 2009: An employee at Circle K on Bonita Juarez was assaulted by 6 men.
Sunday, April 26, 2009 early evening: Massacre occured on Bonita Juarez and Calle 13. Four men fired AK47 rifles at the occupants of a vehicle, killing 3 instantly and critically wounding an 18 year old girl. The execution type murders appeared to be mafia or drug cartel related.
If you are you still interested in vacationing in "margaritaville" make sure you have enough life insurance to cover funeral expenses and support your family.
Are you still interested in livng in Phoenix? Are you blind to the violence happening at a greater rate in Arizona? I still feel safer in RP than in most areas of Phoenix
ReplyDeleteSheryl, could you post an update at Rockypointtalk.net.
ReplyDeleteWhen I heard last night that the Los Angeles gangs, Crips and Bloods had 15,000 killings between them over the past 30 years in LA alone, I had to wonder whether Mexico might be much safer than the US in general as long as you stay away from the tough/drug neighborhoods. When you add up all of the other US cities, that makes for a lot of bodies to bury.
ReplyDeleteIF A CRIP SHOOTS A BLOOD IN COMPTON, LOS ANGELES; DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE UNITED STATES AS A WHOLE IS UNSAFE ?
ReplyDeleteCAN WE COMPARE THE NUMBER OF CASUALTIES OR FOR THAT MATTER, THE NUMBER OF MUGGINGS AND ROBBERY CASES BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND MEXICO, AND SEE WHICH HAS MORE ?
DOES THE FACT THAT THERE HAS BEEN ONE INCIDENT OF KILLINGS IN PEÑASCO, WHICH WERE PEOPLE FROM CABORCA AND WERE FLEEING FROM CABORCA AND CAUGHT-UP WITH IN PEÑASCO, MEAN THAT PEÑASCO IS UNSAFE ?
HOW MANY CASES OF VIOLENCE HAS SOUTH TUCSON OR PHOENIX HAD LATELY ?
THE VILOENCE IN MEXICO IS A MATTER OF VIOLENCE BETWEEN GANGS OR CARTELS, IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT. AND MOST ALL THE CASUALTIES ARE BECAUSE THEY ARE FEUDING GANG MEMBERS, PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE DRUG TRADE OR LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IN THE DRUG TRADE. THEY ARE PARTICIPANTS OR ARE ASSOCIATED WITH PARTICIPATING GANG MEMBERS. AND OF COURSE, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME, BUT NOT MANY.
I HAVE NOT HEARD OF ANY INOCENT AMERICAN OR CANADIAN TOURIST THAT HAVE BEEN HURT OR ATTEMPTED AGAINST.
MOST VIOLENCE IS IN DETERMINED CITIES IN MEXICO, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT MEXICO AS A WHOLE IS DANGEROUS. OR THAT YOU COULD VERY LIKELY BE INVOLVED IN A SHOOTING.
IF YOU ARE IN WALKING AT NIGHT, IN A CRIP COLORED GANG AREA IN LA, WEARING A CAP AND BANDANA WITH THE OPPOSING BLOOD GANG COLOR AND SHOWING GANG SIGNS, THEN THE PROBABILITIES OF GETTING SHOT ARE VERY HIGH. IT IS THE SAME WITH THESE CASES IN MEXICO.
LET´S NOT GET CONFUSED WITH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY. IT IS NEVER AS BAD AS IT SEEMS. NEWSPAPERS AND REPORTERS MAKE A LIVING SELLING AIRTIME AND NEWSPAPERS. AND WHAT SELLS BETTER THAN BAD NEWS ?
IT IS A SHAME THAT READERS WHO HAVE NOT YET BEEN TO PEÑASCO OR MEXICO, RECEIVE A NEGATIVE IDEA WITHOUT REALLY EXPERIENCING THE PLACE AND SEEING IT FOR THEMSELF.
Now if we could only get the snow pigeons out of Arizona that would be great!
ReplyDeleteThis is for the gentlemen at First American Title Latin America Division!
ReplyDeleteObviously the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Grijalva's served everyone via the national publication Excelsior in December 2008. First American Title ( your parent company) served everyone themselves' on January 6th,7th and 8th in the publication "El Imparcial" So, there is not much credibility in your blog. 2 things you did get right: Juan Luis Martin Reyes stole from the Grijalva's and everyone else. #2 Raul O'Farrill for all his talk about being the GURU for Mexican, American real estate, is envolved and implicated in all the North Beach fiasco and is the last attorney anyone should use for any real estate dealings in Mexico. He will only take your money!
Anyone who knows Edger Padilla knows that he is a wanted man in the US. He was the so called owner of El Catorce restaurant in the spas and others worthless dumpy ass over priced junk food joints. He lost el catorce after being caught embezzling 10 of thousands of dollars from the home owner association, total comes to about 80,000 so far. He also made death threats to the President of the HOA whose husband just so happened to be one of the most highly recognized Private Investigators in the US. He has stole millions from his old companies in the US to fund his empire screwing hundreds of people in the US and Mexico. His own parents sued him for over a million dollars that he stole from them in a business his father started. It is rumored that he borrowed money from a Mafia family from down South and cannot pay them back. In 08 RP named him business man of the year. He is in hiding with his family trying to figure out a way to keep himself alive. If you know him, or know of him stay far away. An assignation crew is looking for right now.
ReplyDeleteI believe there will be many people such as Edger who will meet the same fate as thousands upon thousands of people lose their entire life savings to those horse thieves who scammed millions of dollars out of us all. I for one have lost over 100,000 dollars cash and I hope that entire city dies a horrible long death. At this point all we can do is unit and not spend one more dollar in that shit hole. Tell your friends not to vacation their and let it die until the worthless Mexican Government starts doing something about the fraud. We all know that there is about a 100% chance that the bean Government will do nothing because they and the Mexican people hate the gringos guts. It’s time to forget your losses in Mexico and fight our own Government who plans on merging Mexico, Canada and the US into a North American Union. If you allow this to happen you will be living in a country ruled just as Mexico is. Fuck the NWO
Haven't been on this web site in quite some time. I had to figure out the new "sign in system". Glad to see you are keeping us posted on new developments.
ReplyDeleteHopefully some others will be sharing their stories, I am sure there are many that would like to share their experiences purchasing real estate in Mexico.
I paid my renewal on my bank trust in October of 2008, my check has not cleared the bank. I have talked to others with this same problem. Can anyone offer their advice?
I would like to inform everyone that Monty Bartholomew , the brainchild of the Riviera Real project, is off to Ensenada Mexico to start another property development project. This guy is a con man and must be stopped. I know of so many stories involving this man and to what extent he will go though to con new victims. He is a sociopath and cares not what harm and devastation he brings to his victims.
ReplyDeleteHi I would like to know more about all the fiasco about PLAYA AZUL AND PLAYA DORADA,RIVIERA REAL, and all those that got SCAM out of money even if they had THEIR TITLE INSURANCE from FIRST AMERICAN TITLE INSURANCE , Im interested if you dont mind
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